Putin's dream of Russian victory slips away in Ukraine

bbc.com ^ | October 7, 2022 | Sarah Rainsford

[Berlin_Freeper]

"The truth is on our side and truth is strength!" Vladimir Putin boomed into a microphone on Red Square last week, after a grand ceremony at which he proclaimed four large chunks of Ukrainian territory to be part of Russia.

"Victory will be ours!"

But in the real world, things look very different.

Even as Russia's president signed his illegal annexation treaties in the Kremlin, Ukrainian forces were advancing inside the areas he had just seized. Hundreds of thousands of men have been fleeing Russia rather than be drafted to fight in an expanding war.

And things are going so badly on the battlefield that Mr Putin and his loyalists are now reframing what they once claimed was the "de-Nazification" of Ukraine and the protection of Russian speakers as an existential fight against the entire "collective" West.

That is the truth and none of it is on Russia's side.

[Williams]

Anyone who says Putin has scruples is an idiot of the first order.

Trump DEALT with Putin and he had to threaten that thug to prevent aggression.

It was Hilary with the reset button who said she was being friendly to Putin after Bush supposedly alienated Russia.

And it was Biden who initially accepted the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

[tlozo]

You failed to rebut...What would be your thoughts if Russia orchestrated a coup in Mexico, put missiles in Cuba and suggested a mutual defense pact with our southern neighbor?

No excuse for Russian invasion. Russian nuclear missiles are already off US coast in nuclear submarines. Mexico can make a pact with any country they want, but won't because we are not threatening invasion. We would simply stop free trade.

[tlozo]

They are traitors because they...are fighting back against the Ukrainian

LOL, taking up arms and revolting against any country will have you treated as a traitor

[youngidiot]

Absolutely correct.

[duckln]

Anyone who says Putin has scruples is an idiot of the first order.

He has more than Hillary, Biden, Trump, or anyone I can think of on the world stage. ,/

[tlozo]

America is not at war with Russia, no matter how much you wish it was.

And we are currently not at war with China, but we are competing with Russia and China and at a certain point it may lead to a war.

[semimojo]

If Putin would stop giving speeches about his aims people might actually believe your NATO-threat narrative.

[Williams]

Did you get cut off with your sarcasm off symbol, or are you really an idiot.

[Williams]

Certainly the war in Ukraine is a debatable issue in terms of our involvement.

But the people here who actually praise Putin make me sick to my stomach. They are deluded are or false or both.

It’s disgusting to see people say things like he’s fighting for Christianity or against homosexuality or that he has principles and scruples. Absolutely wack job stuff.

Anyone who knows anything about Putin realizes that he is a thug of the worst order and probably suffers from mental problems.

[Williams]

Screw these idiots who go on about what if the United States did XY or Z?

What screw is loose in their heads that they want to find excuses for aggression by Russia. They need someone to shake them and say this is America not Russia!

[gleeaikin]

Don’t forget these labs were there when Ukraine separated from Great Russia.

[Gunslingr3]

I don’t wish for the U.S. to be at war with Russia.
I wish the neocons in Obama’s admin hadn’t pushed the coup in Ukraine.
I wish the neocons in Biden’s admin hadn’t pushed for NATO membership for Ukraine.
I wish Putin hadn’t invaded Ukraine.
I hope the invader is crushed.
I’ve enjoyed watching them suffer retreat after retreat from city after city for the last six months. Seeing their military incompetence on display has been a hoot. 6 months into the war and Ukraine still has an Air Force. What a joke.
The Russians need to stick to blowing up jihadists, they are getting worked fighting a near peer like Ukraine.

With respect to the map, do you believe that NATO members are truly ‘not a concern’ of the U.S.?

[Travis McGee]

Don't call the game in the 2nd inning.

The German Nazis [and most of the world] thought Hitler had won WW2 in the summer of 1942. Then what happened? Do you think more Russians, or more Americans, understand this military history?

[Clue: most Americans don't know who we fought in the Revolutionary War, or who won The Civil War.]

Stalingrad ring a tiny, tiny bell? Yes? No?

.

Trust me, Russians know all of this history backwards and forwards. 99 out of 100 Americans would give you a blank stare if you said, "What does Stalingrad mean?"

[dfwgator]

Or as I say, you defeated the Kaiser, only to get Hitler later.

It’s not like we’re going to occupy Russia, like we did Germany after WWII.

[Gunslingr3]

My FRiend, I wargame the eastern front as a hobby. If there is anything you’d like to know about that conflict, just ask me.

Lend Lease is going to the other side this time.

It will prove just as critical this time as last time.

[dfwgator]

The German Nazis [and most of the world] thought Hitler had won WW2 in the summer of 1942.

"The German Army in fighting Russia is like an elephant attacking a host of ants. The elephant will kill thousands, perhaps even millions, of ants, but in the end their numbers will overcome him, and he will be eaten to the bone." -Colonel Bernd Von Kleist

[dfwgator]

I think the mistake, was in not trying more to divide and conquer, perhaps at first offering Russians a “puppet state” with autonomy, much as they did for Slovakia, this could have driven a wedge, also focus on taking out the “head” of the snake in Stalin, and let the leadership fight amongst themselves for control, making even making for another Russian Civil War.

But the actions of the Nazis only served to unite the Soviet people against them, even the Ukrainians who originally welcomed them as “liberators”.

[lodi90]

Putin has made many of the same mistakes as Hitler. When you tell somebody you are going to wipe them off the map they tend to believe it. Then they fight like wildcats. Then you have the Russian army launching a war on basically the entire country of Ukraine instead of a more limited objectives. Biden even signaled taking the rest of Donbas was ok with his “limited incursion” gaffe.

It’s been one blunder after another and now hundreds of thousands are dead because of the bungling KGB corporal.

[dfwgator]

Rule One of War: Make it easy for the enemy to surrender.

We certainly did that in WWII, the Germans were literally running to surrender to the Western Allies.

Meanwhile in Berlin, 100,000 Red Army soldiers were killed taking it.

[circlecity]

Were they? they