Posted on 07/22/2020 3:14:43 AM PDT by Kaslin
Right, that is the declaration of the Congress & government of the United States of America, declaring all 13 colonies both states and united:
There was never a moment -- not even a full sentence -- in which they were not first United States.
Sure, but the Founders also insisted, first & foremost, they were United States who fought one war of independence and signed one peace treaty at Paris.
The point of listing all 13 individually was to insure that nobody later could come along & say -- "but we didn't really mean Rhode Island or North Carolina, those are still British!"
DoodleDawg: "Because of your claim that everybody accepts that slavery was the foundation of the Constitution.
Other than you and Justice Baldwin I'm not aware of anyone who would believe that."
Thanks DoodleDawg for manhandling our pro-Confederate, the alleged Jefferson Democrat.
I see a lot of Democrat in him, almost no Jefferson.
But just so we're clear, our so-called Jeffersonian Democrat has claimed that slavery was not just the US Constitution's "foundation", but explicitly (& obscenely) its "cornerstone" -- thus referring back to the famous speech by Confederate VP Alexander Stephens, where Stephens goes to great lengths to explain how the new Confederate constitution is vastly superior to the old US Constitution precisely because, as their cornerstone Confederates recognized slavery explicitly (& obscenely) in their new constitution.
“... accepts that slavery was the foundation of the Constitution. ....”
???
We have a NYT Project 1619 contributor\participant on this site?
And so, while disagreeing with me, you still verify my basic point which was that no original state was ever officially recognized as free & independent of the United States -- certainly not during the time the old Articles of Confederation were superseded by the new Constitution.
LOL! Yeah that's it. The Founders insisted that each have its sovereignty recognized individually by name just so people wouldn't say they were still British. Not because the Founders wanted the sovereignty of each recognized by name or anything....
Notice how these PC Revisionists side with Leftists consistently while falsely claiming they're "conservatives"?
Vermont was never officially recognized by anyone as free & independent of the United States.
Throughout our history states & territories have formed or changed status according to Constitutionally mandated "mutual consent".
State boundaries have been changed, states have been split into two or more, proposed states absorbed (i.e., Franklin, Jefferson, Deseret) by others, territories added & "retroceded" -- i.e., Philippines, Panama Canal. All that was perfectly normal & constitutional.
So, land which came to be called first "New Connecticut" and then "Vermont" was previously claimed by New Hampshire, Connecticut & New York.
The issue was settled by Congress admitting Vermont as a free state, then Kentucky as a new slave-state, the first such pairing among many.
Mutual consent for such things is what the Constitution requires.
“. . . thus referring back to the famous speech by Confederate VP Alexander Stephens, where Stephens goes to great lengths to explain how the new Confederate constitution is vastly superior to the old US Constitution . . .”
That is an interesting claim by you.
First things first: in which post on this thread have I referred to the Alexander Stephens speech?
FLT-bird: "Exactly.
This is the direct source of the federal government's usurpation of powers the states never agreed to delegate to it.
Those who cannot see it don't want to see it.
Even biographers like Gore Vidal called Lincoln "the great centralizer".
That was essentially his entire program....to overthrow the original constitution and centralize power in Imperial Washington.
That is the source of most of our problems today."
And those are all absolute Democrat Big Lies.
The real connection between 1860 and today is Democrats going berserk & waging war because they hate the US Constitution and the United States.
Sure, to hear Democrats tell it, you'd think 1860 was over "states rights", but their states' rights were never threatened.
The real truth is 1860 was about, as now, Democrats use of Federal government to enforce special privileges for Democrat voters, period.
Then it was their privilege of owning slaves so Democrats could live the easy-life; today it's their privilege of having taxpayers pay for Democrats' easy-lives.
Everything else Democrats claim is 100% pure nonsense.
And what was the name of each individual state's individual representative?
I must say, when it comes to telling lies these wannabe Johnny Rebs could give Ananias a tip or two.
Here's a little bit of my family's history concerning the Civil War. My great-great grandfather served in a very prominent position in The Surgeon Generals Office during the war in Washington Dc. It was during this time an extensive manual of caring, cataloging, tracking the wounded soldiers and documenting their treatment and care they received was published and is , to some extent is still used. It's called The US Army Surgeons Manual.My great great grandfathers name was William C. Grace. He wrote this manual. You can Google it.
Feel free to look that up for yourself. In anticipation of your next post...no. I'm not going to look it up for you. I'm not here to do your research for you.
No, the denial is an absolute Leftist lie. The Democrat party of 1840 and 1860 and 1910 is not the Democrat party of today. The same goes for the Republicans. They have each changed considerably. The lie is that secession was "about" slavery. Plainly it was not. It was about tariffs and economics and more broadly, the centralization of power.
I did. The only representatives there signed for a single sovereign entity, the United States of America.
Yet that representative and those who negotiated the treaty insisted that EACH state be recognized as sovereign INDIVIDUALLY BY NAME.
And if each was sovereign then shouldn't each have signed?
Your insistence on playing senseless word games is more telling.
woodpusher: "Just how does my unanswered question confirm OIFVeterans absurd conspiracy theory that the United States suffers from schizophrenia? "
That is a completely dishonest question, revealing some of what's going on in woodpusher's soul.
woodpusher: "Why did nobody in the Congress even question or oppose these claims by MADISON et al?"
Neither Madison nor anybody else at the time officially recognized Rhode Island as a separate & independent country.
Indeed, Madison specifically refers to it as a "state" and says it would be improper for Congress to invite the "state" to join the United States.
woodpusher: "How was the Order-in-Council recognized as nullified, and Vermont recognized as an independent state from 1777 to 1791, and Vermont recognized as having entered the Union as an independent state, with self-constituted boundaries in 1791, without it having left the Union after 1776?"
As with Rhode Island & North Carolina, Vermont was never officially recognized as a separate country by any foreign power, or by any United States authority.
Nor did Vermont seriously claim to be a separate country, and indeed joining the United States as a state was a primary reason for changing its name from "New Connecticut" to "Vermont".
But the key point in all these discussions is that changes to state or territory status & boundaries were accomplished by mutual consent, just as James Madison and the US Constitution require.
Part of the answer here is in the next paragraph:
But there's more to this story, which you may remember from the musical "1776" -- Adams & Franklin are sitting with Richard Henry Lee and ask him to go back to Virginia and secure from Virginians, "a resolution on independency".
Lee then delivers the catchiest tune of the play:
My name is Richard Henry Lee; Virginia is my home
My name is Richard Henry Lee; Virginia is my home
And may horses turn to glue if I can't deliver
Unto you a resolution on independency!
For I am FFV, the first family
In the sovereign colony of Virginia
Yes the FFV, the oldest family
in the oldest colony in America
And may the British burn my land if I can't deliver
To your hand a resolution on independency!
You see it's here-a-Lee, there-a-Lee
And everywhere-a-Lee-a-Lee..."
It was then Congress which declared all 13 colonies to the free & independent united States.
Even Virginians never considered themselves a separate country independent of the United States.
And, more to the point: when Virginia was invaded by British troops, it never insisted on fighting the Brits alone.
Virginians served, as did all others, in the Continental Army under its Commander in Chief, George Washington.
So the United States not only declared 13 colonies independent, it fought a long, bloody war to make them so.
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