Posted on 05/11/2018 7:19:03 AM PDT by ethom
Tell you what, you weren’t there.
I wasn’t there either.
The people who were there tend to disagree with you about with McCain.
I have bowed to their assessments.
Nothing you have posted convinces me that you know more about the man than they do.
McCain is one the men who went to the middle east to arm islamist radicals to conquer Syria. That predictably led to the Yazidi genocide.
To defend McCain you are forced to defend that, since at no time did McCain call for the US step in and cou ter the damage.
If you want to keep defending McCain, you personally are going to have to defend the Yazidi genocide. And I will see to it that that will be a relentless and unpleasant prospect. There will be no dodging that and no equivocation has any hope of deflecting his culpability.
You see Jay, McCain’s actions in recent years are in every way in line with what the men who actually served with him in Vietnam have said.
McCain’s arm problem is from his crashing his plane, iirc. He came back HEAVIER than ever!
McCain is no hero.
He fabricated the myth and used it to get elected so he could give away our country to fraudulently documented foreigners.
I went to SERE school in the early 80’s. It’s not a matter if you will talk, just the when you will talk.
Virtue signal much?
I will complete agree that McCain has done tons of things as a Senator that digust me... and I believe without question he has put petty personal squabbles with Trump ahead of the nation, particularly in his vote to end Obamacare, and the turning over of the Dossier...
I will criticize Mr McCains actions in the political realm all day long.
“Instead, he killed people on the deck of the carrier.”
Wikipedia’s description of the Forrestal fire involving McCain indicates that McCain was not part of the cause.
Not after what he did aboard the Aircraf Carrier he was on, which killed over 100 men and injured many more, plus the damage done to the carrier and other aircraft.
I am happy to criticize McCains political career... however that doesn’t turn into criticizing him for breaking while being tortured. The fact that you and others think the first thing, grants you rights to the second is ridiculous.
You can believe what you want, but as I offered before, if you think being broken by torture makes you a traitor or weak, come on over and lets test your theory. My torture won’t even leave a mark on your body, unlike someone who’s battered and beaten routinely.
The belief that being broken by torture makes you a traitor, or weak, is wholesale ignorant. I know it makes you feel better to think you wouldn’t break, but reality is, you would.. anyone will. That’s the whole point of torture... you want to sit in your easy chair and think otherwise, I am glad your life has provided you that bubble of delusion.. largely on the backs of folks who have been there and done that. So if you are going to criticize someone for their actions while being there and doing that, so you don’t ever have to, then you are beyond foolish and ignorant.
I have no love for man of McCains political actions, particularly in recent years, and I will criticize them as much as anyone. There is no doubt in my mind that Obamacare lives because McCain let personal grievances against Trump weigh more on his vote than the good of the country. As they did when he turned over the Dossier to the FBI. That doesn’t mean that ignorant ad hominem attacks on him for actions while being tortured as a prisoner of war are justified.
Anyone engaging in such things shows nothing but their wholesale ignorance as far as I’m concerned. Torture’s very intent is to break you, and while hollywood and fictional novels may have provided you with protagonists who take everything and never crack, the real world does not work that way at all.
Nope, just state the truth. FR is a sad shadow of what it once was.
I reject your personal dismissal of the statements from the men who served in the POW camp with McCain.
In books which I have read for decades, they have asserted that no torture was needed to break McCain.
As I said before, I believe them.
Either all of them are lying about McCain, or you are.
They were there, you and I were not.
They can’t be telling the truth if you are telling the truth.
It really is as simple as that.
My belief is that they have been telling the truth all these decades.
I would like to see your proof source that the “overwhelming majority” of POW’s made similar statements.
Several Men were awarded the MOH for actions including/related to their captivity:
Rocky Versace
William Port
Don Cook
Jon Cavaiani
James Stockdale
Leo Thorsness
Lance Sijan
Bud Day
No doubt these were exceptional men.
I agree with you that there is nothing special about John McCain.
He apparently didn’t try hard enough.
He couldn't even do that right. What a total loser.
Not only a loser, but a quitter too! He should have tried again!
For sure it’s less Bushie. And that is good.
The video is listed as “no longer available.”
I don't know for sure, but I suspect Admiral Denton was the man who recommended some of the heroes on your list for their Medals of Honor, since he was the commanding officer of the POWs for at least a portion of his captivity.
By the way, I know Jim Stockdale made tapes for the North Vietnamese because he has said so himself. The standard for behavior was that each man must hold out for as long as he possibly could, and then give as little and as useless information as he could get away with. Most of them lived up to that code, but most of them also broke.
I've read When Hell Was in Session a half a dozen times or more and still cannot make it thorough some of the descriptions of the torture to which Adm. Denton was subjected without taking a break from reading to compose myself.
By the way, I met and talked to Jeremiah Denton several times when I was a teenager - before he became a senator form Alabama. He was an impressive man. He died about 4 years ago, and I think it was an absolute crime that Barack Obama did not acknowledge his passing in any way, shape or form. I flew the flags at my house at half-staff for a full week.
Sounds like a good enough reason for the local LEO’s to do a 4am, SWAT raid to search for and remove all firearms (and ropes, drugs, and any sharp objects, too).
Yea, like he “tried” to win the Presidency.
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