Posted on 11/21/2017 1:12:37 PM PST by NRx
Almost anything in Imprimus is worth reading all of.
L
must read
“Adolf Hitler tried to do the same for Germany... Need I continue? ”
You be sure to let us know when Putin starts those gas chambers up. Okay?
Idiot.
L
You didn’t have to be a Communist to appreciate the way Castro, whatever his excesses, was carving out a space of autonomy for his country....Putin has become a symbol of national sovereignty in its battle with globalism.
He has nothing good to say about America, and adds to his censures by saying,
“Most Russians have come to believe that democracy is what happened in their country between 1990 and 2000, and they do not want any more of it.”
This is overall likely understandably true, but the reason democracy failed is because democracy alone is not an answer, as you need leaders and a people who are committed to Biblical values and freedoms, and not a national church, which is precisely what freedom the egotist Putin is contrary to.
Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled, either by a power within them, or by a power without them; either by the Word of God, or by the strong arm of man; either by the Bible, or by the bayonet. It may do for other countries and other governments to talk about the State supporting religion. Here, under our own free institutions, it is Religion which must support the State." (Speech to the Massachusetts Bible Society (1849-05-28), quoted in Robert Winthrop, Addresses and Speeches on Various Occasions, Little, Brown & Co., 1852, p. 172)
That the author ignores Russia's increasing persecution of Christians is consistent with his bias, ignorance or marginalization of the basic faith which enabled democracy to work.
Russia's Newest Law: No Evangelizing Outside of Church | News ...
Christians are Severely Persecuted in Putin's Russia – But That Could ...
Christian Persecution Increasing in Russia - Christian News Headlines
Report: Non-Orthodox Christians Face 'Strong Discrimination' in Russia
Russia, other former Soviet republics persecuting Christians, new ...
Moscow church destroyed in sign of new Russian repression Posted on Sep 26, 2012 | by Jill Nelson
MOSCOW (BP) -- It was in the early hours of the morning on Sept. 6 when Pastor Vasili Romanyuk's phone rang. A group of men backed by local police were demolishing his Holy Trinity Pentecostal Church, housed in a three-story building nestled in a Moscow suburb. As word spread, congregants arrived at the scene hoping to save the building, but their efforts were futile. By dawn the church was in ruins and some of its most valuable contents were missing.
An isolated incident? A misunderstanding? Analysts watching the current climate in the former Cold War country don't think so: "This destruction of the church is about as concrete of evidence as you can get that something very bad and very troubling is taking place," said Katrina Lantos Swett, chair of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. "This could not have happened without the backing, support, and implicit blessing of the police."
The incident is just one sign of deteriorating freedoms in Russia, and behind the scenes a cozy relationship between the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church has raised more than a few eyebrows. As President Vladimir Putin digs into his third term, a number of Kremlin crackdowns involving vague interpretations of the country's extremism law and other human-rights abuses are troubling signs that the country has slipped into a familiar, repressive era.
"When you have unknown people backed by the police coming out at midnight to begin tearing down a church, you know something doesn't smell right," Lantos Swett said.
Officials evicted Holy Trinity Church from its original building in 1995 and relocated the church to the eastern Moscow suburb. The congregation used its own funds to construct a new building and repeatedly battled officials over permits. The church demolition and its history reflect an emerging pattern: Authorities confiscate land from non-favored religious communities and force the congregation to relocate to a remote suburb, the religious leaders apply for permits that are subsequently denied, and officials confiscate (once again) or demolish the relocated congregation, citing lack of proper documentation.
Pastor Romanyuk and a small group of the church's 550 congregants arrived on site around 3:30 a.m. as about 45 men claiming to be civil volunteers blocked them from the building and threw stones. "When I arrived, I just burst into tears," 25-year-old Natalya Cherevichinik told The Moscow Times as she surveyed the destruction. "I couldn't believe that something that had been built over several years could be destroyed in a few hours."
Russian Evangelicals Leery of Orthodox Church, Friday, December 30, 2011:
class="adjusted">MOSCOW, Russia -- For decades, the Russian Orthodox Church was persecuted under the Soviet Union's Communist Party.
Since the early 1990s, the church has grown in size and influence as its relationship with the Russian government has improved significantly.
However, that cozy relationship worries the country's evangelicals.
Threats Against Evangelicals
For eight years, Yuri Sipko ran one of the largest Baptist organizations in Russia. Now, 20 years after the fall of Communism, he worries about the growing threats against the country's evangelical movement.
"The collapse of Communism was supposed to usher in an era of greater religious freedom, but I'm concerned we are moving in the wrong direction," Sipko said.
What makes the Russian evangelicals very concerned is an emerging relationship between the Russian government and the Russian Orthodox Church.
"For example, the government recently introduced religious classes based on the principals of the Orthodox Church in public schools," Sipko said.
"Then late last year, the Russian president announced an initiative to appoint Orthodox chaplains to all army units," he said. "Our constitution clearly states no religion can be the state religion."
Russia Church-State Relations
Russia watchers credit two men, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev, for elevating the church's prominence. The state media has also played a key role, often showing the leaders attending church services.
Sergey Ryakhovski knows both men well. As head of Russia's Pentecostal Union, he meets regularly with top government and Orthodox Church leaders.
Ryakhovski worries that the Orthodox Church's influence is coming at the expense of religious freedom, especially for minority groups such as Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists.
"There are so many laws and by-laws that regulate religious life in Russia," Ryakhovski said. "For example, evangelical Christians just can't go out and buy a church building or buy a piece of land to build a church."
"Plus, criticizing or challenging the Orthodox Church is not a task for all," he added.
Orthodox Church Revival
The Russian Orthodox Church on the other hand has had it easy in recent times after decades of state persecution.
Church buildings that were destroyed during the Soviet era have been rebuilt with Russian taxpayer money. In the past 20 years, the government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars restoring some 23,000 churches.
Most Russians say they belong to the Orthodox Church. Yet CBN News found mixed reactions on the streets of Moscow to the growing bond between church and state
At Expense of All Others, Putin Picks a Church
By CLIFFORD J. LEVY Published: April 24, 2008
STARY OSKOL, Russia —
It was not long after a Methodist church put down roots here that the troubles began.
First came visits from agents of the F.S.B., a successor to the K.G.B., who evidently saw a threat in a few dozen searching souls who liked to huddle in cramped apartments to read the Bible and, perhaps, drink a little tea. Local officials then labeled the church a “sect.” Finally, last month, they shut it down.
There was a time after the fall of Communism when small Protestant congregations blossomed here in southwestern Russia, when a church was almost as easy to set up as a general store. Today, this industrial region has become emblematic of the suppression of religious freedom under President Vladimir V. Putin.
Just as the government has tightened control over political life, so, too, has it intruded in matters of faith. The Kremlin’s surrogates in many areas have turned the Russian Orthodox Church into a de facto official religion, warding off other Christian denominations that seem to offer the most significant competition for worshipers. They have all but banned proselytizing by Protestants and discouraged Protestant worship through a variety of harassing measures, according to dozens of interviews with government officials and religious leaders across Russia.
Russia's De-Facto State Religion : Persecution : http://www ... www.persecution.org/?p=9350&upm... International Christian Co... Putin frequently appears with the Orthodox head, Patriarch Aleksei II, ... Baptists, evangelicals, Pentecostals and many others who cut Christ's robes like bandits, ...
Government Returning Land to Religious Organizations to Favor Orthodox Tuesday, March 3rd, 2009: An ambitious draft law on the transfer of property of religious significance to religious organisations may reignite a process begun in 1993.
Pentecostal Seminary Targeted for Liquidation
Pentecostal Church Forced to Meet Outside in Moscow Winter
Russia: Governor Orders Church Land Grab
Council of Religious Experts threatens religious freedom
Russia “You have the law, we have orders ”
In contrast,
the early days of the American experiment the famous French Catholic political thinker and historian, Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859) best known for his two volume, "Democracy in America") attested,
Upon my arrival in the United States, the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more did I perceive the great political consequences resulting from this state of things, to which I was unaccustomed. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom pursuing courses diametrically opposed to each other; but in America I found that they were intimately united, and that they reigned in common over the same country. <
The sects that exist in the United States are innumerable. They all differ in respect to the worship which is due to the Creator; but they all agree in respect to the duties which are due from man to man. Each sect adores the Deity in its own peculiar manner, but all sects preach the same moral law in the name of God...Moreover, all the sects of the United States are comprised within the great unity of Christianity, and Christian morality is everywhere the same...
n the United States the sovereign authority is religious, and consequently hypocrisy must be common; but there is no country in the whole world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility, and of its conformity to human nature, than that its influence is most powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth...
The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other; and with them this conviction does not spring from that barren traditionary faith which seems to vegetate in the soul rather than to live... Thus religious zeal is perpetually warmed in the United States by the fires of patriotism. These men do not act exclusively from a consideration of a future life; eternity is only one motive of their devotion to the cause. If you converse with these missionaries of Christian civilization, you will be surprised to hear them speak so often of the goods of this world, and to meet a politician where you expected to find a priest. (Democracy in America, [New York: A. S. Barnes & Co., 1851), pp. 331, 332, 335, 336-7, 337; http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/religion/ch1_17.htm)
And Benjamin Franklin also advertised,
And the Divine Being seems to have manifested His approbation of the mutual forbearance and kindness by which the different sects treat each other, and by the remarkable prosperity with which He has been please to favor the whole country. (Benjamin Franklin, "Information to those who would Remove to America" In Franklin, Benjamin. The Bagatelles from Passy. Ed. Lopez, Claude A. New York: Eakins Press. 1967; http://mith.umd.edu//eada/html/display.php?docs=franklin_bagatelle4.xml. Also, John Gould Curtis, American history told by contemporaries .... Volume 3, p. 26)
We cannot doubt that the Russian Orthodox Church is an arm of the government. It's infiltration and control by the KGB is quite well known, and its corruption is just as extreme as any other sector of the "post"-Communist society of Russia. For example: "Kirill, who was the Metropolitan of Smolensk, succeeds Alexei II who died in December after 18 years as head of the Russian Church. According to material from the Soviet archives, Kirill was a KGB agent (as was Alexei). This means he was more than just an informer, of whom there were millions in the Soviet Union. He was an active officer of the organization. Neither Kirill nor Alexei ever acknowledged or apologized for their ties with the security agencies. As head of the church’s department of foreign church relations, Kirill gained the reputation of a relatively enlightened church leader. He met with Pope Benedict, and he has been attacked by church conservatives for “ecumenism.”Snip... http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/20/putin-solzhenitsyn-kirill-russia-opinions-contributors_orthodox_church.html
>During the USSR, didn’t Soviet Russia already own the Ukraine? Didn’t they have about 10 motorized rifle divisions in Ukraine? Didn’t they have strategic rocket forces in Ukraine? Weren’t they already supplanting Ukranians with Russians - everywhere in Ukraine? Weren’t they replacing the Ukrainian language with Russian everywhere in Ukraine?
What’s now Eastern Ukraine used to just be Russia as was Crimea. The Ukraine was officially a Soviet Republic. In order to make it plausible that Russians were winning all the elections and dominating the goverment(yes the USSR had elections, but all rigged), it was necessary to bring in a large Russian population to dominate the SR and the easiest solution with the Ukraine was just to bring in extra land from Russia.
Russia’s long had a policy of forcing minority populations to become Russified.
>I think they were. And to say that there were only ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine and Krim is totally ludicrous. Ethnic Russians were everywhere in Ukraine!
The populations in the east were pretty close 100% Russia before it was added to the SRU. The point was to stack the deck with large numbers of Russians.
>So to make the excuse that they needed to protect the Russians in easstern Ukraine and Krim and that’s why they fought the proxy war, just doesn’t ring true.
The Government of the Ukraine was ethnic cleansing the Russian population through Ukrainian neo-nazi groups before the Russian government stepped in. If you think about it, the Ukraine’s never going to be safe without getting rid of their Russia population. Now the logical choice is division, but again, all the valuable land is in the east in the Russian zones so that was a no go.
>To say that they were afraid of NATO bases in eastern Ukraine and Krim is a much more plausible and understandable scenario.
Both are true. To the Ukraine having a Russia population is just asking to be invaded someday just as the Sudetenland was to the Checkoslovakia. And much like the Sudetenland, they started trying to drive out the ethnic minority to make the country safe which gave a justification for the power they feared to intervene. Unlike with Checkoslovakia Russia decided not to take the rest of the Ukraine and hasn’t formally occupied the eastern areas. This leaves the conflict frozen preventing the Ukraine from joining NATO.
The proper solution to the Ukraine is the division of the land, but it’s not a solution either Russia or the Neo-cons want.
Indeed. It is alarming how many conservatives mistake Putin for a good leader. I would likely be in prison in his country, and FR would not exist.
Yes, if you mean, and this book is about, the famine in Ukraine in the 1930s, I’m familiar with that.
There’s also a recent movie about this called Bitter Harvest. I can’t say if it’s any good as I haven’t seen it yet.
My girlfriend is reluctant to see it. I think the wounds are too recent for her, even if the movie is about her grandfather’s generation.
This is essentially a phenomena of Duginist anti-Americanism that combines itself with a “Nationalism” that embraces even communist crapholes like Cuba.
While I appreciate someone who kills journalists just as much as the next guy, this sort of ideology is utterly anti-American despite its lip service to anti-globalism and American patriotism. Ultimately the Duginist types do support a type of globalism—a one world empire originating in Russia, complete with renaming France “Gaul”, and other nations by their ancient names once they take power.
Ok, thanks. I’ve heard this version of the history before.
But I always hesitate at the the term, “neo-Nazi” when referring to Ukranians. What exactly made them neo-Nazis? Did they all have little Hitler mustaches, say “Hiel Hitler”, and walk with a goose step?
I think this might be a manufactured term to describe Ukranians who just wanted to make Ukraine great again - to coin a term - and wanted the Russians out of their country. And NATO took advantage of this sentiment to further its own interests.
I’d be interested to know where the “neo-Nazi” term came from regarding the Ukranians.
I believe you are correct sir. I don’t think he was a big fan of the British either.
>But I always hesitate at the the term, “neo-Nazi” when referring to Ukranians. What exactly made them neo-Nazis? Did they all have little Hitler mustaches, say “Hiel Hitler”, and walk with a goose step?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
The unit was described as having connections to neo-Nazism, with members wearing neo-Nazi and SS symbols and regalia; the unit has neo-Nazis among its ranks. German ZDF television observed Azov battalion fighters wearing helmets with swastikas and “the ‘SS runes’ of Hitler’s infamous black-uniformed elite corps”, and on other occasions some of the soldiers have been reported to have SS tattoos.[65][66][67]
In writing about the battalion’s ideology, Richard Sakwa states that its founding member Andryi Biletsky (leader of the neo-Nazi Social-National Assembly) made statements about “historic mission” to lead “White Races of the world in a final crusade for their survival ... a crusade against the Semite-led untermenschen”; according to Sakwa, this ideology has its root in national integralism of 1920s and 30s.[68]
Ivan Katchanovski in an interview with Radio Sweden described the ideology of the battalion in the following words: “The SNA/PU advocate a neo-Nazi ideology along with ultranationalism and racism. The same applies to the SNA/PU commanders and members of the Azov battalion and many football ultras and others who serve in this formation. Biletsky is called the ‘White Leader’.”[69]
Some of their abuses:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/03/10/ukraine-azov-brigade-nazis-abuses-separatists/24664937/
>I think this might be a manufactured term to describe Ukranians who just wanted to make Ukraine great again - to coin a term - and wanted the Russians out of their country. And NATO took advantage of this sentiment to further its own interests.
The state department did use them to overthrow the government. Since then they’ve been trying to remove them from power, but the Ukraine is more like a series of gangsters territories controlled by private armies than a functioning government. As typical for the Obama state department, they screwed everything up.
>I’d be interested to know where the “neo-Nazi” term came from regarding the Ukranians.
The Ukrainians joined the SS during WW2 to get revenge on the Russians. Oddly enough the most effective fighting unit the Ukrainian army(I use that term loosely, more like a collection of loosely coordinated private armies) today has is the neo-nazi Azov Battalion. The rest of the Ukriagina army is trash.
Ok, thanks again.
Sounds like a lot of “it was reported” kind of reporting. My girlfriend is from L’viv and she doesn’t remember any neo-Nazis. Though she does remember a definite resolve to get Russians out of Ukraine.
You seem to be smarter than the average bear on this. Do you have a particular dog in this fight?
Anyway, I’ll try my own research and get back to you.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Before reading this article, I did not know that Russia had the longest border with Islamic countries.
“If you want to know what Russia did to Ukraine”
I will correct you. You should have said “What Stalin did to Ukraine”. BTW, Stalin was Georgian, not Russian.
>Sounds like a lot of “it was reported” kind of reporting. My girlfriend is from L’viv and she doesn’t remember any neo-Nazis. Though she does remember a definite resolve to get Russians out of Ukraine.
The Neo-Nazis were pretty small number compared to Maiden, but they were the were well armed, organized and used as muscle during the coup and against Russians populations in the east after the initial Ukrainian army units failed against the population. Soros was running Maiden and he didn’t want people with Nazis symbols showing up in their ranks so generally they were used only when reporters were not around, like on the day of the coup.
I fully get why your GF wants Russia out but her country was just being used as a proxy war against Russia before Trump was elected. Without a formal division between the Ukrainian areas and Russia areas, there really won’t be a lasting peace.
>You seem to be smarter than the average bear on this. Do you have a particular dog in this fight?
Nope. I just noticed the media was lying about what was going on in the Ukraine and did my own research. As you noted both sides lie, so finding the truth takes some digging and reading between the lines. I was pretty amazed at the level of dishonesty from our media and how stupid our state department was.
They really expected Russia to give up and walk away on their only warm weather port in the Crimea after the coup! Russia would sooner have a general war with the west than give that up. Our government is run by morons who don’t jack about history.
>Happy Thanksgiving!
Happy Thanksgiving, mate.
Thank you for your thoughtful, accurate and brave posts.
I am an American of Russian, Irish, and Spanish ancestry. The way some Freepers denigrate Russia and Russians is infuriating, to say the least.
The Cold War Brigade, as I call them, are trapped in the past. They still regard Russia as the “Soviet Union” and that Russians are “subhuman savages”, as that “lovely” Freeper described us.
There is so much irrational, violent, bigoted hatred against Russians among certain Freepers that I believe that, if they could, they would re-create Hitler’s Final Solution against everyone with Russian blood. I believe some would even like to exterminate all Eastern Orthodox believers, despite the fact that the Eastern Orthodox Church has been around MUCH longer than their sects.
My statement may have sounded incredibly harsh but I am constantly blown away by the pure HATRED of anything or anyone Russian. They regard Russians as worthless or subhuman.
It’s funny that these certain posters never spew such vile, bigoted, violent vitriol against China, Saudi Arabia or Mexico. Those nations are a much bigger threat to the US than Russia and are actively working to destroy us.
Russia isn’t perfect, far from it, but neither is the US and the West. The West, under Soros’ influence, is spreading the poison of political correctness and Globalism worldwide. Germany is at the forefront of the Islamization of the West and the implementation of the Kalergi Plan, which is, simply, White Genocide. Personally, I regard Merkel’s Germany as an enemy, not an ally.
I actually applaud Russia for protecting their children from the gaystapo and other destructive Western influences. Pedophilia is deeply frowned upon in Russia and Eastern Europe, yet is becoming mainstream in the West.
Anti-Russians even side with the Chechens against Russia, which is ironic because the Chechens are the textbook definition of savages.
I’m sure the Anti-Russians cheered the terrorists at Beslan when they were raping, torturing and slaughtering Russian children. After all, in their minds, the children were just Russian savages, so no great loss.
Putin is no angel, not even close, but at least he loves his country and cares about the survival of Russia. But, to some people, that makes him evil. SMH.
I will be blasted for this but I applaud Russia’s fight against ISIS in Syria. Russia and Syria have been close allies for years and Assad asked for their help. OTOH, many people forget that our very own John McCain helped start ISIS.
I have always regarded myself as American and never really thought much about my ancestry. That is until recent events. The media’s tired “Russia, Russia, Russia!!!” narrative and the Anti-Russian bigotry from some posters have made me even prouder to be of Russian ancestry. In fact, I’m much prouder of my Russian ancestry than my Irish because I hate modern Ireland. Ireland is an EU, Globalist, Pro-Muslim hellhole and most Irish I’ve spoken with hate Americans.
Sorry for the long rant but I just wanted to thank you for speaking the hard truth for actually respecting Russians as human beings.
Why are you so bigoted against Russians?
I believe Khruschev attached Crimea to Ukraine for administrative reasons because it had no land connections with Russia. It was easier to govern as part of Ukraine at the time. That and also Khruschev being Ukrainian. I don’t think there were hidden motives like maintaining Russian influence in Ukraine because Crimean population was like 2 million vs 50 million of Ukraine. Also an idea of separation of Ukraine and Russia was rather unbelievable in 1954. The issue was minor like a question of jurisdiction of a state over a county when applied to US perspective.
‘’’’Be critical of modern America all you want, but I will remain proud to represent and live in this country even with all her flaws.’’’’
LOL. That’s the point. I don’t see why the others including Russians can’t feel the same way about their nations.
Russians cherish and are rightfully proud of their culture, but the ones who are able, move out in droves for a reason. They pay lip service to Putin out of necessity. At the end of the day, he is a dictator.
The Russians I know are more patriotic about America than some of the Americans on this thread! Good grief! And I include the Russian military members I know in that category.
And I don’t think people realize how rare it is to have someone as cool as Trump fronting a country. Let alone the most powerful one. Unlike Putin, Trump is actually...”good.” A good person. Cheesy as it sounds. Not in it for the money or power. Stumbling along the way, but genuinely seeking to do right in the sight of God.
Putin cant even show his family in public.
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