Posted on 11/15/2017 5:06:53 PM PST by Simon Green
The Trump administration plans to allow hunters to import trophies of elephants they killed in Zimbabwe and Zambia back to the United States, reversing a ban put in place by the Obama administration in 2014, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service official confirmed to ABC News today.
Even though elephants are listed as endangered under the Endangered Species Act, a provision in the act allows the government to give permits to import these trophies if there is evidence that the hunting actually benefits conservation for that species. The official said they have new information from officials in Zimbabwe and Zambia to support reversing the ban to allow trophy hunting permits.
"Legal, well-regulated sport hunting as part of a sound management program can benefit the conservation of certain species by providing incentives to local communities to conserve the species and by putting much-needed revenue back into conservation," a Fish and Wildlife spokesperson said in a statement.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
I too love animals, and elephants in particular intensely capture my interest and imagination. I could never kill one just for “sport.” Yet I eat meat. I am able to accept that, as others point out, trophy hunting can actually help preserve the species. I am in favor of that.
“I essentially do not believe in trophy kills.”
Then you need to learn about the value of trophy hunting. Think of it this way. It is one of the best things you can do for the herd.
Imagine some total top level athlete, a mean tough one, super handsome too. Imagine him hanging out in your local town. Every woman wants to bed him down and does. He impregnates half the women in town and his seed is everywhere. Any other guy tries to hit on a woman, he is there to beat them up and drive them off.
Pretty soon all the kids in school are related...and they begin dating and breeding.
The genetics of the town begins to suffer.
Then an evil “trophy hunter” comes to town. He sees this fine top level specimen of a man and shoots him and hangs him on the wall.
He has already bred many times so that’s not an issue. But now, all the other males in town get a chance to breed and the soon, their kids aren’t all related.
It really is that way. A trophy hunter is good for us, and good for them. This is well established science and if you don’t believe me get down to Texas A&M and speak with their game management specialists.
The ranches that allow them to run the hunting have the best deer both in numbers and quality.
Don’t kid yourself.
Its all about genetics. They come down from the university with total numbers of deer that -must- be shot. They specify the shooting of spike bucks, and some that need to be left for a while.
This is a very good Texas study on the massive positive effects of trophy hunting. Take a look if you are interested.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_w7000_0827.pdf
Your post made me remember what was a very scary movie for me as a child: Elephant Walk.
I would be opposed to this. Elephants are magnificent creatures. I don’t support hunting them, and I don’t support taking a trophy of the kill.
As Teddy Bear noted in #8, the only thing that matters is what the Africans think. Without income from hunting permits, elephants ate just pests that the native farmers would prefer exterminated (much like how many home owners here feel about the suburban deer population).
Hunting gives value to the wildlife. Without value, they will be driven out or exterminated by the farmers.
In that case, you make the elephant have no value to the locals, who will have no reason to not exterminate them. See the other replies on this thread.
Absolutely true, but there is no way to convince people of this simple fact who do not want to be convinced.
The only way to ensure survival of endangered species is for it to be in the best interests of the locals for them to survive. Elephants are extremely destructive animals, and require huge ranges. (Not a slam on elephants, just a statement of fact of their biology) If you are a subsistence farmer in an area where elephants range, you'd not appreciate it when they destroy your crops one bit.
Proper game management can keep herds to reasonable numbers. They can also provide a lot of revenue generated for the local population and government. It's not easy to do, and takes quite a bit of intelligence to pull off, but some countries have done so in the past. Sadly, the state of government in most of Africa doesn't really facilitate that kind of smart management.
If you love animals, then you should support legal management of the herds. Post 8 above is accurate in what we've seen in the past. Good management, and local incentives will actually increase herd size and health. When the only way to cull a herd is via poaching, you'll find entire herds destroyed at the behest of locals whose land is encroached by them.
Put into other terms somewhat closer to home, do you know who the largest private owner of wetlands in North America is? Ducks Unlimited. They have been buying wetlands across the entire migratory route of waterfowl from Canda to Mexico and Central America to make sure that there are plenty of waterfowl to hunt. The hunters themselves donate a lot of money for this effort because it's in their own best interests to do so.
Then what in the hell did nature do before there were trophy hunters? How in the hell did the herds flourish and survive before trophy hunters? I find the whole thing to be excuses for pretending nature would not in time take care of what “trophy hunting” claims it and it alone can do.
Then what in the hell did nature do before there were trophy hunters? How in the hell did the herds flourish and survive before trophy hunters? I find the whole thing to be excuses for pretending nature would not in time take care of what “trophy hunting” claims it and it alone can do.
You're kidding right? I'd ask if you have any idea how destructive elephants are to the area they are currently occupying, but the answer to that is pretty obvious. If you were a farmer who had his entire crop and everything related to it complete destroyed because a herd of elephants decided to migrate through, you might have a slightly different perspective.
Wildlife is managed in any area where civilization exists to any significant degree, because humans massively impact the food chain, by driving away or killing predator animals. We alter landscapes for our own purposes, often at the expense of the local ecology of local wildlife. That is neither good nor bad, but it is a fact. Because we change the facts on the ground viz the wildlife, it is incumbent upon us to also make the effort to manage it the best we can. That's what 'stewardship' is all about.
Here in Texas, as mentioned upthread, we spend quite a bit of effort to make sure we manage game animals intelligently because the alternative is, that if we don't cull herds, they will tend to increase in population beyond the land's ability to sustain them because many natural predators that would otherwise have done the work for us are no longer there.
Africans should have the same right to do so as we do. It is a fact that managed herds are healthier and viable than those subject to random predation by poachers, or those that simply expand beyond the ability of the land to sustain them.
You are calling her ‘toots”? Are you a man? I’d push you down an elevator shaft if you called me toots.
Exactly how does that work when it takes a year for 1 elephant to be born?
You’re right. Texas landowners combined with TPWLD and Texas A&M biologists have no clue about the biology of deer. It’s better to follow emotions like you do.
And it’s pretty clear you didn’t even glance at the link i sent you from the Texas study on the matter.
Bambi really affected you, didn’t it?
Yes, i read an opinion piece that was totally understandable... http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-oe-allen-trophy-hunting-endangered-species-20150808-story.html
Last I heard most of the areas of Zimbabwe open to trophy hunting had shown a marked deline in elephant population over the last 15 years, mostly due to poaching.
Not in favor of this at all.
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