Write a check for $2.7T (CA’s share of national debt) plus market value for all federal property, and we’ll talk.
Let them go. The new ‘country’ will be divided into three or four nations within two years.
I can’t believe that national Democrats would be OK with Calif.seceding. Hillary won the popular vote nationwide only because of a huge margin in Calif. The electoral vote was somewhat close only because the Democrats could pencil in Calif 55 electoral votes right off the bat. Democrat presidential candidates will have a much tougher time getting elected without California. For these reasons I would think Democrats in other states would strongly oppose Calif. leaving the union.
It’s the only solution.
This raises another question, though. With California being a state friendly to illegals, will that mean that we will need a wall between California and the rest of the nation?
Pat makes some good points. The problem as I see it, is that the liberals would never go along with state by state policies.
For example, a recent great example is homosexual marriage. The liberals insisted that we had to have nationwide homosexual marriage, and decided to mount a long campaign to force that issue through the courts. If the liberals would leave these issues to be resolved by states, Pat’s idea could work. But if you review how homosexual marriage was forced on America, you see that the liberals will not behave in a manner which allows for state by state resolution of societal issues. They insist there has to he a federal 50,state solution to everything; that is their mindset.
” Secularism had been enthroned”
A bit off topic, but when you consider the epa, it’s paganism that has been enthroned.
In the monotheistic religions, only god is more important than man. In the pagan, nature is more important than man because nature is their god.
Originally, pollution controls served to protect people, hence the epa was originally named by nixon the pollution control agency.
Now, it’s the environment that gets the protection, not people. If it’s a choice between your welfare and the planet’s, the planet wins.
I’m for it, but then I’ll want border control— Californians don’t get to move or travel freely into other states and pollute them with their godless marxist values. Let them live in the liberal cesspool paradise they think they’ll build. They’ll learn a hard lesson about reality, and there will be no one to bail them out. If only.
BTW, CA: the Civil War sparked when the South fired on Fort Sumpter. Whatever the condition & occupancy thereof, ANY violent assault on US property (including foreign military bases) WILL be met with dominating force to retain control of that property, up to and including the complete overthrow of any government asserting control over that property.
To wit: I contend the Civil War occurred as it did because the USA does not relent ownership of military bases located in foreign countries (see Guantanamo) without negotiation and unilateral consent, reserving the sovereign right to defend those bases at all costs; the CSA did not negotiate ownership of Fort Sumpter, the USA did not relent ownership, and the CSA attempted to take it by force - and the abject refusal to relent ownership claims was resolved by overthrowing the CSA government. As such, I suggest that if CA wishes to secede in peace, it must not initiate violence, and writing a >$2.7T check will help immensely.
As usual, Pat doesn’t really get it. The US citizens of CA have been the victims of a subtle, insidious invasion, sponsored and encouraged by the traitorous DemonCrap party, to separate CA from the US, a separation the will leave the US militarily weakened with our wet coast possessed by a hostile, marxist power. That’s been the purpose of the illegal alien invasion of CA all along. By now there are two or there million illegals voting illegally in that state.
They and the DemonCraps have stolen the state from its real citizens and now threaten secession, a horrible move that will fundamentally threaten the security of all of us.
The only solution to this is a full Federal investigation of the CA electoral system that will remove the illegals from the voting rolls and stop the myriad other forms of DemonCrap vote fraud. Pat’s suggestion would simply reward the thieves and traitors for their crimes .
Can anyone take seriously an author who thinks the civil rights movement had anything to do with African-Americans having the right to vote? The 15th Amendment was ratified in 1870, long before civil rights became the early progressives' great campaign.
There’s a better solution that a few on the left have started to recognize. The left has been trying to make control over everyone’s live be (from most to least)
* Federal govt (influenced by UN if our Constitution “fails”)
* state govt
* city govt
* individual (what do you identify as today)
In theory, conservatives say control should be more like
* self-determined (religion, God, personal view of life)
* family
* neighbors
* city
* state
* feds
If we can flip the left’s control hierarchy to family-first/feds-last we can get along. I’m sorry for conservatives in some parts of California. But I’m also not demanding to force my bathroom/genital rules on San Francisco as long as they don’t demand the state and feds force the same rules on everyone.
Dems havem for most of my life, wanted to force their ideas on all from the federal level. They are now accepting that states’ right’s may have a place (pot, crime, etc). So there is an opening to having LA and SanFran (and California) remain part of the US if we can all agree to the individual-first/feds-last order and “leave each other alone”. If LA & SanFran want to control the country they need to go.
Now is no time to relax for Conservatives, conceding how blue California is, Colorado looks to have largely flipped to blue and there are minority-majority states that conceivably could swing in the future. This is why building a beachhead and likewise flipping blues and purples, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc. could be crucial in the future.
“Is Secession a Solution to Cultural War?” the Q asked by Pat.
And what happens when the first tough guy dictator makes a play to take over Kalifornia like Saddam did with Kuwait? Are they going to have their own standing military to defend themselves? Would they sever all ties to show their dislike of Trump? If some country tried to invade and take them over, would they scream bloody murder to the US government to come defend them?
This succession bull is exactly that, bull. The list of the unintended consequences of this liberal idea, would be unending. Taxes would have to raised even higher to make up for the federal aid the state now gets from the federal government and even more people would move out and "immigrate" to the US. Would they be denied visas? Or will California build a wall to keep the population from leaving, like the Berlin Wall?
So many questions with no answers. This has not been well thought out logistically. It's all about their "feelings". But then again, it is the liberals who think this will solve their dislike of Trump. Their ideas have NEVER worked out as planned.
“Yet, given the divisions among us, deeper and wider than ever, it is an open question as to how, and how long, we will endure as one people.”
Are we still one people?
The USA was formed by an act of secession in the first place. It, secession, is one of the ways humans have managed conflict in the past, no reason to abandon it.
Forget them leaving, let’s kick them out, after annexing all the parts we want to keep. We’ll keep the farmland in the interior and the port of San Diego, they can have Hollyweird, the ghetto and San Fran/North Korea bay area.
They we cut off water to LA unless they pay for the wall we’ll need to build to keep them the F out.