Posted on 12/13/2016 4:25:48 PM PST by Eleutheria5
See the post right before this.
“2) Genetics shows that you can trace any common DNA in significant sized groups of Jewish folks back to Ukraine, Poland, or Spain, not back to any ancient lineage the way you can some European or African populations to this day.”
Actually, genetics does point back to an ancient Jewish middle-Eastern lineage, at least in the Y chromosomes. This is an old discussion, so let’s not go there yet again.
I was agreeing with you from a different angle.
A convert is a non-genetic Jew, and Halacha requires Jews to love converts and accept them as Jews. But you are otherwise correct.
But I understand how people hang onto what they've invested their preconceptions in, it's the same psychological disconnect that has the Left hanging onto the idea that it's impossible for Trump to have won the election.
Since you love the racist theory that that a Jewish bloodline can be traced back to whenever you think is the critical juncture, enjoy it. Just don't pretend it's settled science any more than the globull warming BS is.
“’Jews’ describes primarily an ethnic group...”
Ah, FR “knowledge” about Jews. Lemme guess, you’re a “bloodlines” guy.
I asked that we not go there. I see the hook behind the worm, and am not interested.
“Since you love the racist theory that that a Jewish bloodline can be traced back to whenever you think is the critical juncture, enjoy it.”
Creation and genetics is a racist theory. Now I heard everything.
@Rashputin, Mr.M.J.B:
Yeah... let’s just ignore what centuries of rabbinical writings, Jewish law and Israel say about Jewishness and just cry ‘racist’ and ‘Hitler’. Typical liberal behaviour.
You guys don’t even realize that you are unwittingly harming the case of Israel (assuming you support Israel)- which understands itself as a NATIONAL endeavor for the Jewish PEOPLE defined by BLOOD, to RETURN to their ANCESTRAL LANDS.
The funny thing... Eleutheria5 is a religiously observant Jew and agrees with me on the matter of bloodlines and Jewish ethnicity. As do all relevant Jewish sources.
But what do they know, right? *shaking head*
It’s not solely blood and genetics. Once you’re named a Jew, there’s a whole slew of responsibilities you have to fulfill, born or convert.
I never said “solely” - I wrote primarily and foremostly.
But per authoritative Jewish understanding, one does not lose Jewishness through disobeying the religious responsibilities.
One might become a “bad” Jew in the religious sense through non-obedience, but always remains a Jew by blood.
Once you convert to something else, you’re no longer a Jew. You broke the contract. You’re welcome back any time, and there’s a process for that too.
Please don’t make me explain this in gaming terms.
“Once you convert to something else, you’re no longer a Jew. “
Tell that to Israel or the authors of the Halakha.
One can change the creed back and forth, but not the blood.
http://www.jewishagency.org/first-steps/program/5131
4B. For the purposes of this Law, “Jew” means a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion.
http://www.jewishagency.org/first-steps/program/2016
In order to demonstrate eligibility, the Government has requested that the following documents accompany your application:
Documents showing Jewish connection (These may include: a letter from a rabbi or Beth Din, conversion documents, and marital and/or burial records.)
—
The rabbinate is the authority on all lifecycle events and will definitely not recognize two Christian converts getting married in Israel, blood or no blood.
Hashem knows who is a Jew and who isn’t. Penultimate authority and all that.
Then why did Israel let former Soviet citizens (mostly Russian and Ukrainian) immigrate, whose only claim to “Jewishness” was one Jewish grandparent? A large number of these folks have nothing to do with religious Judaism, are atheists or Christians.
Arbitrary double standards are nothing new in any bureaucracy... but in any case the Israeli definition of Jewishness is in the end mostly focused on genealogy. Else they’d have to throw out a good bunch of their “Jewish” population.
Because they were coming from a communist country with a history of pogroms against Jews and gave them the benefit of the doubt.
The Soviet Union didn’t want them to emigrate either. Took a long time to finally let them leave.
I think you were referring to Law of Return, and related amendments in 2007.
“In Israel, a debate continues over the Law of Return. Some people wish to retain it as it stands, others want to modify it, and some to abolish the Law completely. Those who would abolish the Law object to it because it grants Jews rights that members of other groups governed by the State of Israel do not have.[31] Others argue that the law permits the entry of too many non-Jews, thereby undermining its purpose.[32]
In September 2007, the discovery of a violent Israeli Neo-Nazi cell (Patrol 35) in Petah Tikva, made up of teenage immigrants from the former Soviet Union, led to renewed calls amongst politicians to amend the Law of Return.[33] Effi Eitam of the National Religious Party and the National Union, which represent the religious Zionist movement and have previously attempted to advance bills to amend the Law of Return, stated that Israel has become “a haven for people who hate Israel, hate Jews, and exploit the Law of Return to act on this hatred.”[34] On the other end of the political spectrum, MK Ahmed Tibi of United Arab List and Ta’al criticized the system’s double-standard, stating that, “people immigrated to Israel and received automatic citizenship under the Law of Return, while citizens of Nazareth and Tayibe are not allowed to visit their own relatives merely due to the fact that they are Arabs.”[34]
37 percent of Israelis polled said that deeper background checks on new immigrants would amount to racism against Jews from Russian speaking countries.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return
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