Posted on 09/27/2016 10:23:34 AM PDT by artichokegrower
Maybe even 12vdc based circuits, RV style, with LED lighting, and propane RV fridges.
I’ve thought about something like that, with local power inverters for some things.
Where I live I’ve seriously considered augmenting with wind power and an automotive alternator. Sometimes we can get some awesome wind here. Heck, we could even consider water power with our two streams, though in the dry time they are but a trickle.
Did you hook up a switching box to your main circuit breaker box? How did it work out? I also have a Generac generator but run it with extension cords as needed. I bought a switching box but never hooked it up, because I'd have to break through a stucco wall. Figured I'd do so if society went bad if TSHTF.
You are thinking one dimensionally on this. I have a 4.5 kW system. It sends surplus power to the grid in summer, and I receive credit toward power in winter months when I have a deficit.
My monthly bill from the utility company is $10 dollars, and I used a home equity loan to finance the panels. My old bill was $130 per month, going up every year as they tack on more charges for things like decommissioning nuclear plants and carbon taxes. My gross cost out of pocket is now fixed at $100 per month, and my net after tax deductions is about $75 per month.
We’ve had the panels for 18 months with no hiccups or issues financially or technically. The grid is my power bank, and my cost of acquisition and maintenance is only about $10/month. A bargain in my book. No way you can ever get that level of benefit for that price from a DIY approach.
I actually like some of those old systems that use panels ( with a drain back component) or batch water heating to prevent freezing.
The only systems alive today I know of are the preheating types using a storage tank with heat exchanger and some open systems.
There are several systems I put in in the mid 80’s that are still running. When the Gov began subsidizing most of those types of systems however were not approved types.
My favorite was a manufacturer named Trendsetter.
I’m currently building some prototype double passive solar green house systems to help grow thru Winter. These systems will not be pressurized and only run on water head pressure using thermosyphon to heat the soil under the greenhouse.
My hope is that they can be built using a variety of cheap materials that a homeowner can install and maintain.
Im a fan of the Sun for many reasons, just not a fan of the program’s government has historically done w solar.
how much does electricity cost in places like
Hawaii, Puerto Rico, USVI, Guam.
might be worth it for avoided-cost.
Put in the back yard to stay away from
property tax issues.
can you do some of the work yourself?
What you describe is what I put in. Technically it’s a solar generator. I have 4 panels total 400 watts @ 12 volts and 8 122 Amp Hr. deep cycle batteries. A charge controller to keep from overcharging and 120 volt invertor that can run up to 3000 watts of 120 volt devices. No grid tie. During full sunlight when batteries are charged I hook items usually TV/Dish/computers to the invertor to use the solar that’s not needed to charge the batteries. Using common voltage displays I can monitor solar and battery voltages to know what I can hookup for how long. At night the 900 amp hour storage can run a lot until the sun the next day. You still are on the grid, but can offload what the batteries can deliver. How much you want to save depends on number of panels and battery capacity . Utility companies are starting to charge grid feed solar customers a fee to grid tie to cover their infrastructure costs. A 4 panel 8 battery system costs about $1,000 to $1,500 to put together, not tens of thousands.
There isn’t any technical requirement for a replacement panel to be identical. It only has to be “close”. For example, I added later 80 watt panels to an array composed of 75 watt panels (same photovoltaic type). If the mismatch is too great you will of course have electronic sub-optimizations. If the appearance of the new panels if different you might want to put them at the end or something.
Yep, it’s brutal when you crunch the numbers.
I would say if you have the upfront money to purchase them yourself, all the power to you. I'm not against solar panels but the pricepoint is still too high in my opinion. I think eventually they will get more efficient and less expensive. I'd also like to store unused power in batteries as opposed to sending it out on the grid.
1) are you handy, a manager, provident? to make solar economical, you should install them yourself. Savings are considerable. Even if you contract some to a roofing contractor, you should be prepared to do the rest yourself. Shop the best deals.
2) do you have a high enough income to enjoy the tax advantages?
3) can you pay cash for your system? This is probably the most important question. It is absurd to finance.
Here's one way to look at it: a tax free income, particularly if you can buy the system just before retirement and you plan to stay in the home. You will always have to buy electricity. You'll pay taxes on the income you need to buy that electricity. Even the electricity is taxed. You are not just saving on the cost of the electricity but the taxes involved. Another bonus: you can leave the lights on if you want to, turn the thermostat where you please.
Think about all this--don't reject it if it interests you just because it's hippy-dippy.
Our county in California does not change property tax valuation over solar panel install. The PACE program described in this article uses the property tax system to collect the principal and interest in a 20 year loan to pay off the panels. The only way someone gets screwed in making a decision on whether to get solar panels is by not understanding math. All the costs are disclosed up front, and if they are more than your utility bill you just say No Thanks.
#42, No I didn’t. If I had installed a permanent residental unit I would have.
I just back feed from my Pole Barn/Shop panel to the main panel in the house.
I over did the size of line and breaker when running the electrical from my Main House panel to the shop so all I needed was a 220v. outlet wired appropriately for the generator to the shop Panel.
Point out to your co-op how solar helps them during peak times, like the summer afternoons. They don’t have to build infrastructure, because you did it for them. Make a little noise.
If interested,
This is a pricey yet excellent turbine generator to look at. The smallest is 30 KW that runs best economically on Natural Gas. The company has been around a while. Unlike standard generators these last and run very efficiently.
http://www.capstoneturbine.com/products/c30
We had a 7 KW system pay for itself in less than 7 years, but it only worked because it was in San Jose, CA, where tiered power was as much as 49 cents per kilowatt hour, and we paid cash for the (Grid Tied) system, and got both the federal and state subsidies.
It took our PG&E bill down from as high as $700 a month, to right around $100 a month (Because we still paid for gas for water heating and a furnace.)
Now we’re in Nevada, and electricity is about 10 cents a kilowatt hour.
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Actually it has come. Germany is one of the largest markets for Solar Electric panels. Solar electricity does very well in Alaska. The farther north you go the higher the angle of the panel and they run much better, efficiently that is, in cold weather.
I know a little about the subject, I have 36, 325W panels on my roof. They produce in the neighborhood of 12KW. By the time I dump that into my rather large batteries I'm only getting about 10KW but everyone has loss problems that we can't do much about. I average 5-6 hours of full output per day, that is 50-60KW going into my battery. My average usage including electric freezer, refrigerator, A/C and a bunch of lighting and computers is only about 40KW per day, so I let the grid be my backup first. If the grid fails, there is no sun and my battery is used much more than a week I then have to use my backup generator which will charge the battery at 16KW per hour. I would then have to use the generator every other day for a few hours until the sun comes back out. The truth is that even on cloudy days the cells produce quite a bit of power.
Do I recommend Solar electric? I do but only conditionally. If you purchase the components yourself and can do the work yourself you save a fortune. Solar installers are making a killing on pretty simple work. There are certain times of the years that most equipment providers are slow, that is the fall. People getting ready to spend money on Christmas and cold weather don't make people think of spending on equipment that must be mounted outside, so , the dealers offer sales and packages to help you want to spend. Take advantage of it. October is likely the best month to buy. Also realize that if you spend $30000 the government (this year anyway) will give you $10000 of it back. If your electric bill is $250 a month that is less than a 7 year payback. You can do a great deal with $30K if you are wise and careful.
Buy more than you think you will need, there are losses you won't anticipate. If the grid goes down here we won't notice it even in the hot summer.
Replace heavy electrical loads with more energy efficient loads. For heat consider a high efficiency heat pump, perhaps a heat pump water heater. Use ONLY L.E.D. lighting and replace your old refrigerator and freezer with high efficiency models.
Since I have a 1 floor 3000 sqft house with breezeway and large garage I had plenty of roof in the right direction, not everybody does but roof placement is the easiest and cheapest installation.
I have learned a great deal on this project, it has been fun. I read and read and read before I jumped in, I highly recommend anyone considering solar do that, know what you are doing before you start.
This story is nothing more than a scam by the solar panel sellers to get solar panels removed from property tax calculations.
We have gone thru the same thing in Florida and the voters approved two constitutional amendments to exempt solar panels from property tax.
Voters have been indoctrinated to believe solar panels are good no matter the cost.
If the Feds were not subsidizing solar panels, the solar panels companies would not be in business.
Been doing this for 5 years now, multiple systems. Freep mail me if you want to engage me in details.
The grid is a maintenance free battery bank — this is good.
What you pump into the grid in the daytime, you pull out at night — this is good.
Bad — power outage in the daytime means all shuts down, no solar benefit if the grid goes out.
Good — Florida has been writing laws and statues prohibiting any real tax on solar gear on homes.
Bad — home owner insurance provided coverage at the time I build my systems, then cut all solar gear coverage a year later.
#54, 3 phase 480 volts? :) Damned boy, I ain’t running a Power Plant.
Then I’d have the neighbors expecting me to run a feed to their house.
I have less than 1700 in mine. Until I need to start a business and Compete with Consumers Energy, I am good. :)
Panels are getting cheaper but batteries and their lifespan seem to be the make or break on cost efficiency (that and the real number of days the sun shines on your proposed installation spot of course)
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