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To: rawcatslyentist
You brought up Eric Garner. This is an instructive case on many levels. Allow me.

Eric Garner occupied an economic niche created by the taxing policy of the state of New York and the city. He apparently bought untaxed cigarets in bulk from out of state and sold them singly for cash. Since the price of a pack of taxed cigarets is out of reach for some you can actually make money doing this.

It can be said that Mr. Garner's profits were the tax portion of a pack of cigarets. His margin was a little higher because he sold small amounts. He was basically stealing tax money from the state. As you are aware the state frowns on this activity. Moreover, the shopkeepers (who are really tax collectors in this instance) thought they were suffering because of lost sales. Therefore they called on the full policing powers of the state to stop Mr. Garner. We are all aware of the result of this action.

So, who is ultimately to blame for Mr. Garner's death? I don't think there are many cops who would rather be arresting Mr. Garner for the terrible tax crime he was committing than stopping real criminals. And yet, they were forced to uphold the taxing policy of the state by their bosses. I don't blame the cops for this one.

19 posted on 07/23/2016 3:45:49 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Gold and silver are real money, everything else is a derivative.)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

This Eric Garner story has always reminded me of the infamous Eleanor Bumpers - another obese character who resisted arrest and ended up dead. It turned NYC upside down for a long time!


28 posted on 07/23/2016 4:51:06 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard the Third: With my own people alone I should like to drive away the Muslims)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

You’re quite right that the Garner cops were sent out there. They were not just patrolling around. The way the cops went about arresting Garner is where the problem started. Four cops and ONE of them leaps on his neck like something out of Wild Kingdom provoking all sorts of mainly ineffectual struggle. Not very long ago each cop would have grabbed and immobilized a limb, hoisted him, lay him face down cuffed him and put him into the wagon. It is better than just remotely possible that the asthma attack that killed him would at this point become still have presented itself but Garner could then have been treated and possibly saved. I heard, years ago from cops themselves, that this cop on a limb up and in you go whether you like it or not technique was SOP.


32 posted on 07/23/2016 5:47:26 AM PDT by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job....)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

Fantastic post..!!


37 posted on 07/23/2016 6:30:06 AM PDT by gaijin
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To: Former Proud Canadian

The Sons of Liberty did the same thing back in the day. They supplied untaxed prodcuts for commerce. The ‘State’ didn’t like that as well.


39 posted on 07/23/2016 7:07:02 AM PDT by Theoria (I should never have surrendered. I should have fought until I was the last man alive)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

Erstwhile street entrepeneur Garner had been arrested 30 times, for crimes such as assault and theft. He was out on bail at the time of his death. He, like the LA purveyor of vintage entertainment media (CD’s!), Alton Sterling, was one of the curious fixtures of urban/ghetto street life, the sidewalk vulture, who hangs around outside of legitimate businesses, annoying customers, on the lookout for “action,” ie. opportunities for illegal enrichment. Do you think the bodega owner, trying to sell legal cigarettes, enjoyed having the hulking Garner greeting his customers as they came to his business? In a saner time, laws against loitering were appreciated as tools to control people up to no good.


42 posted on 07/23/2016 8:30:31 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Former Proud Canadian
...."So, who is ultimately to blame for Mr. Garner's death?"....

I understand the case you are trying to make, but Mr. Garner is responsible for Mr. Garner's death. He was overweight, asthmatic, diabetic, and decided to fight the police. All he had to do was sick his wrists out and take the cuffs and do his arguing in court. He didn't die at the scene, but at the hospital from asthma. I'm sure the attack was from the arrest, but why get all upset at the scene?

Police are just a tool law enforcement uses to bring suspects under control. Fighting and resisting Police is always a futile thing. They won't just back off and say "Well this guy doesn't want to go with us, so lets just leave him alone". They will bring in 15 more officers if necessary to get the job done, but get it done, they will. People don't get shot just sitting in their vehicle saying yes sir and no sir.

The case for taxes on cigs is for legislators, not for the police. The police take oaths to enforce said laws.

53 posted on 07/23/2016 4:51:34 PM PDT by chuckles
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