When the Government Lies: TWA Flight 800

American Thinker ^ | June 29, 2016 | Mark A. Hewitt

[Kaslin]

Years ago, in another lifetime, I flew the mighty F-4S Phantom II in the jet route structure. Several times I flew high enough for the engine exhaust to condense in the minus 60°F atmosphere. At 30,000 feet, I’d look in the mirrors on the canopy bow and watch a pair of thick contrails swirl behind me, laying down a set of unmistakable tracks proving that I was no longer just turning jet fuel into jet noise but I was leaving a trail visible for all to see for miles and miles. Some people on the ground, primarily those on the political left, have suggested my contrails were actually “chemtrails,” that they were some wild Petri dish concoction consisting of chemical or biological agents that were being deliberately sprayed for some sinister purpose, like a Bond villain, on an ignorant general public. I was shocked to learn that somehow the enlisted guy who refueled my jet with JP-5 was in on the conspiracy and was dispensing some nefarious additional chemicals from his R-11 fuel truck. When I became aware of the “chemtrail controversy” years later, it proved there are some strange people in America. That when you don’t have enough facts or understanding of the basic science of condensation, I guess you make up something. Who doesn’t love a good conspiracy when the facts are just boring?

[rlmorel]

I just don’t believe a US Navy ship did it.

[DesertRhino]

And you forgot, Heat seeking manpads intercepting outside their range always strike the cold fuselage in the center and carefully avoid the giant heat producing jet engines.

And in the center of this attack, the navy ship radars nearby didn’t track it and they didn’t find the launching boat. OR they did and managed to keep a crew of sailors silent about it.

Also, this is the first terrorist attack that no terrorist group took credit for.

This is as silly as demo charges in the WTC. This same FBI was convinced they knew Richard Jewell set off the bomb in Olympic park.

[wjcsux]

later

[IYAS9YAS]

What about low-altitude trails where jets trail from areas on the wing that aren’t engine-mounts, or the trails falls from these heights in a shower ?

Water vapor condensation in high humidity situations. Several years back, I was at the Indy Car race in Portland, OR, it had rained throughout the day, and there was high humidity. The track dried, but all the rest of the race, at certain points just in front of us (end of the front straight), the cars were sending vapor trails off the rear wings. They were moving fast enough that the moisture in the air was condensing on the wings, and then swirling off them with the airflow.

[DugwayDuke]

RayChuang88 wrote: “I’m still standing by my theory that the plane was shot down by a jury-rigged SAM system using the components from a 9K33 Osa (NATO code name SA-8 Gecko) mobile SAM system. Unlike MANPAD missiles, the 9K33 can hit a plane flying as high as 40,000 feet; given TWA Flight 800 went down flying at just under 14,000 feet in altitude, that’s well within the range of this missile.”

Question: The SA-8 weights 17.5 tons. How big a boat would it take to carry that system?

[DugwayDuke]

DesertRhino wrote: “And you forgot, Heat seeking manpads intercepting outside their range always strike the cold fuselage in the center and carefully avoid the giant heat producing jet engines.”

And the warheads on a MANPADS are about the same size as a hand grenade, rather small to blow the front end off a 747.

[IYAS9YAS]

To believe in chemtrails one must believe that airlines would willingly add several hundred pounds to their planes in the form of equipment and then even more weight for the chemicals themselves, in a market where they must fill 96% of their seats to be profitable.

Well, there's that, and the fact that dilution would negate just about everything they're accused of spraying. Like pissing in the ocean...

[nascarnation]

I think that number is for the entire system including mobile land transporter.
The missile itself is 170kg (375 pounds)

[Hulka]

To the author of the article:

I am not a former old F-4 guy. I am a former A-10 and F-15E fighter pilot, and a graduate of the Mishap Investigation school when it was at Norton, participated in several mishap investigations (led two), and have a ERAU masters degree, therefore, I, along with you, know quite well there is a huge difference between that you can prove and what you may feel.

Of course a massive loss of life and our default position is terrorist attack. That is why your cadre of “T” instructors said what they said.

Remember “(Cause)” in mishaps reports? Those are links in the mishap chain you can prove happened and caused the mishap.

Any number of ‘causes’ if stopped or interrupted would have broken the mishaps chain and the mishap would not have happened.

There are no “I feel” in the reports. We may feel a terrorist caused the mishap but can we prove it?

For those that may not know, because I am sure the author does, mishap reports publish causes they can prove, not emotional feelings.

Of course, even Ray Charles may feel it was a terrorist incident, likely on-board, but can you/me/others prove it?

“the probable cause of the incident was some fuel cell problem was completely unbelievable. . .”

That comment dismissing internal fuel explosion is not supported by fact or history: USAF explosions in the fuel cells: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3439655/posts?page=177#177; http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3439655/posts?page=177#177

Been a while since the author looked at a 3-1 for a MANPAD engagement envelope, I guess.

MANPAD discussion: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3437887/posts?page=141#137; http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3437887/posts?page=184#168; http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3437887/posts?page=184#184
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3437887/posts?page=139#139

Everyone has a right to their favorite conspiracy discussion. Indeed, “Who doesn’t love a good conspiracy when the facts are just boring?”

TWA 800 is an entertaining conspiracy but not my favorite. . .now. . .Groom Lake is fun for me (of course the author knows from his Red Flag exercises that Groom Lake is the base on the ground and Area 51 is the airspace ABOVE Groom Lake. Novices have no clue and always refer to “Area 51” when they actually mean Groom Lake.

As I’ve said before, the best conspiracies are the ones with no proof of a cover-up; you see, the lack of evidence is proof of how good the cover-up is.

Have fun. I’ll leave now. (Sadly these types of threads usually end up with frustrated snark and insult for those that don’t believe the MANPAD, US Navy surface-ship doing the shooting, or was it a submarine shooting. . whatever favored theory fits.)

Cheers, from “I want to Believe” Mulder. . .er. . .Hulka

;-)

[Hulka]

In my 20-yrs of flying fighters, and refueling off of tankers, never saw a shower. Guess I wasn’t paying attention. . .

[Hulka]

And hide the schematics in the systems diagrams and mislead depot maintenance crews about that “system.”.

[longfellow]

Scary to think about, I’m sure.
And they got away with it.
willie also knew about the sept 11 plans. Read Dereliction of duty.
https://www.amazon.com/Dereliction-Duty-Eyewitness-Compromised-Americas/dp/0895260603

[Hulka]

Indeed. . .but entertaining.

[Little Bill]

The Picture I saw was years ago. In my experience when thing go Boom, the force expands 360. I don’t care how many holes you have, you are going to get global deformation.

[ml/nj]

The three authors came to the same conclusion, by different means, that someone used a man-portable, shoulder-launched, anti-aircraft missile. How was this not a terrorist attack? Terrorists, primarily al-Qaeda, were having a field day attacking Americans.

Well, they're all wrong. There's no way a shoulder launched missile took out TWA 800.

See It wasn't terrorists. It couldn't have been. This is an article that I originally posted here at FreeRepublic that had to be deleted for completely unrelated legal reasons. Fortunately some guy reposted it, albeit without the html so things like color are missing. To read what I wrote you need to scroll past his opening paragraphs.

Bottom line: TWA800 normally would have been at 19,000 feet where it was hit. No terrorist would lie in wait at that position with missiles not even effective to 15,000 feet. ML/NJ

[ml/nj]

I just cannot see how a crew of 350 could be oblivious to what their missile had done, and could be made to be silent about it.

Actually, it is my recollection that Reed Irvine (Accuracy in Media) did report that one or two on the ship did come forward and they were crushed like grapes. (My characterization, not Reed's.) I met Reed, who passed away a number of years ago, on several occasions and found him to be completely straightforward. Most of the time anyway. I believe he subsequently reported that he was lied to by the sailors.

ML/NJ

[DesertRhino]

“And the warheads on a MANPADS are about the same size as a hand grenade, rather small to blow the front end off a 747.”

A very good point. As aside KAL 007 was shot down with two fighter launched K-8 missiles. These are much larger than any ManPad round with at 88 pound warhead. Hit with two of these a 747 flew on for another two and a half minutes and slowly spiraled in.
And we are to believe a ManPad blew it in half.

Must be one from the same company that builds those 12 gauge shotguns in see in the movies that blow up cars into a giant fireball.

[DesertRhino]

“There are no “I feel” in the reports. We may feel a terrorist caused the mishap but can we prove it?”

“I feel” is how the FBI decided Richard Jewell blew up that bomb to look like a hero.

[RayChuang88]

The normal 9K33 Osa system includes that tracked vehicle that is quite big. But what if an enterprising terrorist with good technical knowledge was able to install one launch rail and the radar system so it easily fits inside a pleasure boat?

[DesertRhino]

“I’m still standing by my theory that the plane was shot down by a jury-rigged SAM system using the components from a 9K33 Osa (NATO code name SA-8 Gecko) mobile SAM system. “

Jury rigged huh? Did this little motorboat also have the guidance computer and radar in it? And did it have some sort of magic that let the Navy shit in the area not notice a Soviet band AAA radar light up the world? And then did the boat submerge and return to its Nazi base in Antarctica?

Im fascinated here.