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To: OddLane

I’ve visited East Africa several times...most recently earlier this year.I’ve talked to Kenyan,Tanzanian and South African game wardens and guides at some length about poaching.Every one of them has told me that the basic problem is that if a group of poachers manages to “bag” (my word) an elephant or rhino they can make the equivalent of 5 years wages for their home area.It’s the damn Chinese who want rhino horns (they think it enhances male virility...the stupid savages) and I’m not certain who wants ivory today.


3 posted on 04/30/2016 11:28:03 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Obamanomics:Trickle Up Poverty)
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To: Gay State Conservative; OddLane
So in 1989 the international sale of new ivory products was prohibited.
"I’m not certain who wants ivory today."

I'll give you one small market. In the Japanese tea ceremony (note: "chajin" means someone who practices the tea ceremony), there is a level of tea practice called karamono, which is when one is using a ceramic tea container originally made in ancient China. Instead of the usual bamboo tea scoop, when practicing karamono one is supposed to use an ivory tea scoop, which is what the ancient Chinese used in their version of the tea ceremony. I learned karamono about the time ivory production was banned, so I have never been able to obtain an ivory scoop for myself. ( is a close-up picture of one.)

6 posted on 04/30/2016 11:47:22 AM PDT by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: Gay State Conservative
" if a group of poachers manages to “bag” (my word) an elephant or rhino they can make the equivalent of 5 years wages"

Yes, but making ivory more scarce drives up the price. It might not be 5 years of wages if it were managed instead of banned.

8 posted on 04/30/2016 11:50:00 AM PDT by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: Gay State Conservative

“It’s the damn Chinese who want rhino horns (they think it enhances male virility...the stupid savages) and I’m not certain who wants ivory today.”

Clearly, an ethnic group “bigger” than Chinese...


12 posted on 04/30/2016 12:14:04 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (BREAKING.... Vulgarian Resistance begins attack on the GOPe Death Star.....)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Ivory, both raw and “worked”, is still a major social and status symbol in Asia, especially in countries with rapidly growing economies and middle/upper classes that have money for “conspicuous consumption”.

Within the last few months one of the East African countries (Kenya? Tanzania?) chose to destroy tens of millions of dollars (or more) worth of illegal ivory that had been captured and impounded. I recall thinking how stupid and unthinking it was to burn it instead of dumping it on the market...selling it would have benefited the national economy, collapsed the illegal market, and probably filled the Asian demand for years if not decades.


14 posted on 04/30/2016 12:19:53 PM PDT by M1903A1 ("W shed all that is good and virtuous for that which is shoddy and sleazy... and call it progress")
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