Posted on 04/17/2016 4:26:01 AM PDT by Kaslin
Waterboarding is finally back in the news thanks to CIA Director John Brennan's recent comments and I, for one, am glad.
I've missed talking about waterboarding much like I've missed discussing who played a better Darrin Stephens in Bewitched. I've always maintained that Dick York kicked Dick Sargent's backside in that role but no one seems to A). Know what I'm talking about; or B). Care what I'm talking about when it came to the near transcendent subtleties showcased in York's acting chops especially when he interfaced with Endora.
Oh, well. What can you do? Most geniuses are usually left to ponder the great things in life alone and such is my lot.
So ... thank God, at least for my sake, that folks have resumed interest in and are currently conversing about water torture for terrorists.
Matter of fact, a Christian radio show host asked me the other day how I could, as a believer, be cool with waterboarding terrorists for intel crucial to our national security—or, as I like to call it, the implementation of The Doug Giles Irrigation for Information Act. Irrigation sounds so much more pleasant than torture, oui? Oui. I told my inquiring host that as a patriotic white, male, Christian redneck, as far as I can deduce from the holy text, Jesus and the balance of Scripture seem to be okay with dunking Achmed if he has the 411 regarding the 10/20 of the next mass slaughter of innocent Americans. Call me crazy. I’m well aware, however, that I could be committing an exegetical error given the fact that I’m white and male and all. This is my cross.
Please note: If Christ wasn’t cool with irrigating irate Islamists for facts, I must admit, I would still have to green light our boys getting data from enemy combatants 007 style. Stick a fire hose up their tailpipe and turn it on full blast. I don’t care. I’m not as holy as most of you super-saints or as evolved as some of you progressive atheists purport to be. Security beats spirituality in this scenario, as far as I’m concerned.
Now, as you can imagine, the holier-than-I show host was a tad bit taken aback by my confidence and giddiness over teaching captured terrorists how to snorkel minus the snorkeling gear if it would keep our country safe. He saw that as somehow incongruent with the Clay Aikenization of the sassy Christ a stack of Americans now worships. He then asked me, in kind of a tsk-tsk tone, for a proof text or two from Jesus’ lips and la Biblia that would come even close to his wishing or implementing ill on those who would harm or kill the innocent. This was like taking candy from a baby for me.
How’s this for starters, Zippy? In John 2:12-17 Jesus whipped religious hacks who were turning God’s temple into a Costco filled with religious crap. According to St. John’s account, it was the second thing Jesus did after John baptized him in the river Jordan. The first thing he did was turn water into wine. That’s two things lame evangelicals can’t imagine Jesus doing: making wine or using a whip, but I digress. Yep, Jesus opened up a can of whup ass on charlatans in the temple. He didn’t pray for them or write them an angry email with the caps lock on or call them “man-made religious disasters” that we need to apologize to for forcing them to sell overpriced spiritual curios. Nope, he methodically sat down, got ticked, made a whip and cleared the punks.
Having that snapshot of Christ violently snapping on the 1st century televangelists in the temple, I’m a thinkin’ that if he got that riled up over overpriced Precious Moments figurines, personally whipped the culprits for it and then ransacked their product display tables, more than likely he would be cool with submerging a couple of murderous morons who have information regarding the pending liquidation of thousands of innocent civilians. (And by the way, I’ll take water in the face over a whip to the back any day of the week.)
If you still think he would have problems with waterboarding the wicked who have the deets on potential terror plots, then what do you do with the story of Noah’s Ark? Correct me if I’m wrong, but those chumps got waterboarded to the max, right? Aw, what’s the matter? Does that 411 not fit with the Jesus you made up? Shame. Not only did Jesus flog greedy religious freaks, he, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit, created this little place called hell for the wicked—which makes Gitmo look like a Chuck E. Cheese. Although, come to think of it, Chuck E. Cheese is quite hellish. Bad analogy. (But you get my point.)
In Matthew 18:6, Jesus said if you harmed a little kid it would be better for you to have a chunk of concrete tied around your neck and tossed into the drink off Miami Beach, compared to what the Trinity has prepared for you in eternity (author’s paraphrase). Sounds bad, eh? Worse than waterboarding? I’m thinking...yeah. And then we have the book of Revelation. Yikes. This book is one chapter after another of agony on steroids for those that war against that which is holy, just and good.
So, once again, I’m kinda thinkin’ Jesus wouldn’t blink at how cautiously and methodically our intelligence gents have been in pouring some Zephyr Hills down Habeeb’s nostrils in the hope that such “torture” will make him spill the beans regarding his posse’s plans.
Y’know, maybe I would be more empathetic toward the terrorists who wish to kill us if I were a Hillary supporter from wussville, but alas, I ain’t. So, I say, in the name of Jesus, stick the terrorists under the water for an extra minute or two if that’ll persuade them to unveil their buddies’ macabre machinations.
Granted, it’s always great and right to err on the side of civility, except, of course, when saving many lives trumps the uncomfortable nature of sticking a garden hose in a terrorist’s snout.
Given that they are raping women for not being Muslim and beheading the men, no, waterboarding is not immoral.
Didn’t say he did. But he was not afraid of pain.
Any, as far as I can tell, waterboarding does no permanent damage, and fails to meet the level of torture, as I understand it.
At any rate, in this imperfect world, we are sometimes confronted with hard choices. In these cases, I will always choose my own side.
Nobody but the Left will try to stop you. However, the premise that your "side" of a conflict is also Jesus's side requires some logical argument and some realistic support, not just an assertion.
Yes. Next question.
Rape usually does no permanent physical damage, either. Your reasoning has ... gaps.
God flooded the whole earth to get rid of some very bad guys who would destroy mankind.
Let’s run with this.
“Is rape Biblical?” Sure it is. Plenty of rape is recorded in the Bible.
“Is it possible to use rape or the threat of rape to get information that couldn’t be gained by gentler methods?” Sure it is.
“Might that information prevent a deadly attack?” It can’t ruled out ... although it also can’t be proved that no other method, no other information source, would have achieved the same result.
“Does rape always cause permanent physical damage to the (male or female) subject?” No, it doesn’t.
Ergo, Jesus is in favor of rape, if “we” really think it’s essential.
Dear Doug Giles:
Waterboarding wasn’t invented yet when the Bible was written, so the Bible is silent on this topic. But thanks for asking.
Doug Giles is a putz.
Our own guys get waterboarded as part of training.
Truth
Protestant Christians may struggle with the bible falling to address a topic, but Catholic and Orthodox Christians have never had a problem with it, nor did the entire Christian world for the first 300 years of the religion, before the Bible had been published in its current form. The Bible is an excellent resource for Christian dogma, but it is not the ONLY resource.
It may not be Christian but it’s danged effective. :-)
HMMMmmm...
Going back BEFORE Christianity; it seemed to be ok to deal rather harshly with your ENEMIES.
And a putz who never spent a day in uniform.
The two are on no level equivalent. Also, there is no purpose to rape except the perverse pleasure of the rapist. The purpose of the waterboarding, at least in the context that we are discussing, is to gain information to save innocent lives.
Your answer is morally vacuous!
I did say that compared with the sacrifice of innocent lives, I don't think Jesus would have much of a problem with waterboarding to prevent that.
Jesus was not a pacifist; nor will He be when He comes again.
You say use logical arguments and realistic support? Fine. Show me that you know how to use them yourself. Learn to understand the literal meanings of written words instead of the fantasies you pour into those of others.
“Lot's of rape in the Bible”? Not generally highly though of there, although I will admit that a lot of it was committed by God's people. God sometimes permits things He does not condone.
You could threaten rape, or break a leg. but these are much more severe than I understand waterboarding to be.
In any event, give me your plan.
I don't say waterboard every 14-year old with an AK-47, but if the leaders are captured alive, I have no objections to a little persuasion.
Hey, if terrorists want to be treated by Geneva convention rules, then let them fight according to them.
In the cases of terrorist leaders, it seems extremely probable to me that this particular dichotomy could occur.
“Swatted at them”? Maybe a little rougher than that. “Scourge”, “overthrew”, “drove them from the temple” seem, how I say, somewhat more extreme than “swatted”
Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
John 2:14
And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
John 2:15
And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;
I’m all for it. Will get back to you with chapter and verse.
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