Posted on 01/21/2016 6:18:26 AM PST by suthener
In plain words, accept your chains and hope they rest lightly. No thanks.
This is fascism.
Why pass new laws when you can use the bureaucracy to intimidate the citizenry?
0bama can foment Tyranny simply via Presidential "guidance" and re-interpretation of existing "rules".
He should be impeached...
There are some states where a similar procedure is the law already. However, in many states, the freedom to sell your possessions without oversight exists without question. In those states, you would probably be hard-pressed to get your local FFL to go along with this process. I'm not an FFL but it seems to be outside the standard process for them to receive a 4473 from your potential buyer, call NICS, get a clearance, and then retain the 4473, as provided for in the law, without a balancing entry in their "bound book" of a firearm sold from their inventory since the background check was for a firearm they did not hold in inventory.
Perhaps an FFL can check in with further info and correct anything I have wrong here.
I don’t like the case by case approach. Too much prosecutorial discretion allowed. If the law is ambiguous, the benefit should be to the accused, not to the accuser. Don’t like the ambiguity? Get Congress to change the law. Oops! There’s that pesky word, “Congress,” again.
Well, I guess you could truthfully answer “No” on the form if you did not absolutely rule out any circumstance where you would sell a firearm except at a gun show.
Perhaps you would prove that intent by frequently posting offerings on a website, say...the Gun Broker ...to sell a commonly available firearm for an absurdly high price. No sale, but you have offered to sell outside of a gun show.
I live in Alabama. You can go to one of the online gun brokers and find guns for sale between individuals all day long. I have to admit I was making an assumption about going to FFL to make the transfer. I have bought guns online and gone through the process of having it shipped to an FFL and doing the paperwork etc. at the gunshop. I assumed they would do the same thing for an individual sale but I admit I could be wrong. I don’t know what kind of liability they assume (if any) in doing that. On the other hand, it would be easy money for them.
I don’t sell guns. I only buy guns that are useful to me and really can’t see why I would sell any of them. I’m not a big fan of buying used, either, primarily because it seems most people ask almost as much for a used gun as a new one these days. The best deals are friends or acquaintances that need fast money, but I have yet to be able to take advantage of that.
“So, how would one know if he/she is breaking the law or not? isn’t that the way the communists subjugate their citizenry? They use the threat of prosecution as a means of controlling people to get them to do what they want?”
Yes, exactly, hence the quote from “Atlas Shrugged”.
No you need to proceed as always on private sales as OMuslim has no authority to do what the Congress refused to do and that is to authorize universal background checks. Its backdoor registration.
Nothing hard to understand about that.
You fool. This is EXACTLY what they want. Helps them build a registration list.
The criteria for deciding that you are an unlicensed seller are NOT vague. Here they are:
I've read the ATF Guidance on Imperial King Obama's Gun Decree closely
When I look through it closely it really does not appear to require FFLs or background checks for private sales. There are various things that define you as an ‘unlicensed dealer’, including:
1) A business card,
2) Representing yourself as a source of firearms for customers,
3) Taking orders, and offering to buy a specific firearm to immediately resell to that ordering person.
4) Repeatedly selling and then restocking the same model and make firearm,
5) Accepting credit cards, getting business insurance on your stock, and other similar business related activities.
6) — and this is the money one — As a general rule, you will need a license if you repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. In contrast, if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal collection, you do not need to be licensed.
I guess this law can be abused, just like any and all other laws can be abused. But if things are as represented in the guidance, Armlist and Gunbroker and all these sorts of websites — and private sales at gun shows — should be fine.
Here is the actual guidance. Note that it was published Jan 1, 2016, so the ATF had a heads-up on today's Imperial Decree:
https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download
A Virginia gun-rights group agrees with my assessment.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/ne...5/posts?page=1
Laz,
I have read your posts here, with enjoyment, for quite some time. I assure you I am not a fool. Based on the ATF interpretation as stated in the article, I stand by my conclusion. You can question the article if you choose, but calling me a fool is completely out of line. I thought we could debate on this forum without resorting to name calling. Obviously I was mistaken.
As quoted in the article:
“The ATF will start enforcing a rule any person selling firearms from a store, a gun shows, or online must have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and conduct background checks. The administration stressed that there is no “specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement.â€
The last sentence indicates that they COULD prosecute for the sale of one gun.
Only for white conservatives. They will be prosecuted
Ok, I won’t call you a fool. But do me the favor of reading beyond this article. Read the actual guidance and read the points I extracted. This move by Obama is intended ONLY to frighten you into registering your private sales through NICS. There is no force of law behind it. Period.
I understand the guidance and I understand what you’re saying. However, here is what I see happening:
A person who bought a gun legally sells it to an individual. The buyer uses the gun in a crime. The gun is traced back to the seller (since all new bought guns are registered already). Seller says “I sold gun”. ATF says “You sold a gun without an FFL; you’re going to jail”. Obama appointed judge says, “Yep, you’re guilty”.
Can you really not see this happening?
I am a refusenik.
Why do I think there will not be a single case prosecuted within Cook County?
Well obviously. There are no guns there. They’re illegal. (s)
“No you need to proceed as always on private sales as OMuslim has no authority to do what the Congress refused to do and that is to authorize universal background checks. Its backdoor registration.”
And what court will be making the determination of that authority? The same one that tied itself into knots on Obamacare? Of course it’s background registration. It must be done before confiscation. See above posts for the conversation I had with Lazamataz.
Right. The guidance gives exacting examples of what they will prosecute, and what they won't.
Other than that, be a Refusenik.
Otard will be gone in 12 mos. His little directives mostly illegal will go with him.
“I think the bottom line is; if you sell a gun you’d better go to an FFL, pay $15-35, and do background check on the buyer or potentially go to jail.”
Nah. Just buy or sell the firearm for cash, or bartered good, avoiding the paper trail of checks or credit cards. If you are ever asked about it, just remember that it was bought or sold “Sometime time in late 2015, I think.” LOL.
All perfectly legal for in-state sales in Texas. Maintain FREEDOM.
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