New ATF guidance on gun sales is legally meaningless (or else it would be unlawful)

Washington Post ^ | January 5 at 11:43 AM | By Jonathan H. Adler

[Lazamataz]

.... snip....

.... Taken at face value, the new ATF guidance is thus nothing more than a restatement of existing legal requirements. It merely identifies those who are already subject to the relevant federal requirements and does not in any way expand the universe of those gun sellers who are required to obtain a license and perform background checks. In other words, it is -- as the document says -- a guidance, and not a substantive rule. It has no legal effect.

If the ATF guidelines are nothing more than a guidance -- an indication of the sorts of things that might trigger a federal investigation or prosecution, but not a tightening of the relevant legal standard -- why would the administration do this? There are several potential answers. First, guidance documents are often useful insofar as they explicate relevant legal standards and (as the name implies) provide guidance to the regulated community. Such documents can help people know when they are subject to specific legal requirements. Further, if there are people who should have federal gun licenses but have neglected to obtain them, the guidance document might encourage greater compliance with federal law.

A second potential reason for issuing a guidance document of this sort, as Eugene Kontorovich suggests, could be that the administration hopes to "chill" marginal gun sales. Although a guidance document does not change the relevant legal standard, the issuance of such a document can affect behavior. Individuals who learn they are closer to the relevant legal line than they had realized might be encouraged to comply with the relevant legal requirements, or they may opt to stop selling guns. In this way, a guidance document may help to discourage behavior the government wishes to control but which may lie beyond the government's legal reach.

.....

[MHGinTN]

LoL ... ouch!

[MHGinTN]

I was thinking in terms of ONLY the gunshows (and dealers with class III licenses)..

[CPT Clay]

So I can still get an AR-15?

[Lazamataz]

If you can find one.

[Big Red Badger]

Resist We Much!

[Myrddin]

Violations of HIPAA seem to be enouraged though the dictator's directives. That seems to have legal consequence.

The Emperor can't declare the privacy provisions of HIPPA invalid for purposes of his agenda. That requires a change in the legislation on the books from Congress. Until that happens, a doctor violating the law on the books is committing a criminal offense.

[Myrddin]

My CLEO would sign off a Form 1 or Form 4 for me without a problem. I chose an NFA trust so that my wife doesn't have to be exposed to the possibility of being charged with "constructive possession" of an NFA item. Everyone on the trust is protected and authorized. Ownership of the NFA items in the trust remains with the trust and passes to the beneficiaries. Much nicer than having an NFA item that belonged to a deceased family member an no clear path to legal ownership/possession.

[Myrddin]

I wouldn't object to having a NICS check done for a prospective buyer of a firearm I'm selling. That protects me from being charged with selling to a prohibited person and provides a clear legal demarcation of custody of the firearm after transferring to the buyer. I do the same with a car sale. I want a clear date/time of transfer. That covered my butt when I sold a Toyota pickup to a roofing contractor. The dope got a parking ticket just hours after purchase. The ticket came to my house. I returned it with a copy of the transfer of liability statement with date/time. The buyer was PO'ed that he got caught instead of stiffing me for his stupidity.

[submarinerswife]

Exactly right, Humblegunner. He is a condescending bastard. After all these years on FR, I can tell you that this is probably the second time that I agreed with you. Lol

[submarinerswife]

This website is the most valuable BECAUSE one can learn so much from fellow Freepers and from the posts of data which would otherwise be unknown to me

FR is days ahead of the media

Does anyone remember the Dan Rather debacle, FR, Little Green Footballs and a few others broke this wide open. I remember long threads of people discussing the brands of typewriters available at the time and many other aspects of the fraud. They were on top of this. (I was proud of my fellow FReepers)

[MHGinTN]

Gunner helps make this place what it is, a place with integrity ... bashing nlog-pimpery is Gunners special gift.

[The KG9 Kid]

Heirs are legal inheritors of NFA items, sir.

[Squantos]

Agree ....I found Schrodinger’s cat with clues I got here at FR !!

[GOPJ]

Thanks for the ping Laz.

[gettinolder]

Guess who? A little late in the thread/evening hope you're not susceptible to nightmares...lol

[Myrddin]

Heirs are legal inheritors of NFA items, sir.

Good. Double covered.

[Myrddin]

So I can still get an AR-15?

Certainly. Budsgunshop.com, CheaperThanDirt.com, BeavercreekArsenal.com, AndersonRifles.com. All solid online vendors. Give them your zip code and they will show you the FFLs in your area that can do the transfer. Pick one. Pay for the rifle, shipping, insurance. You'll get a tracking notice via e-mail or you can login to the website to check the order status. Call the FFL and let them know when UPS or FedEx is expected to deliver. Upon delivery, go to the FFL, fill out the Form 4473, bring your driver's license/CCW(if you have one), pass the NICS check, pay the transfer fee and take your purchase home.

[maine-iac7]

time to take a chill pill?

[arthurus]

I think we have heard just the first shoe.

[tarheelswamprat]

Agree ....I found Schrodinger's cat with clues I got here at FR !!

Was it alive or dead? ;-)