Posted on 12/24/2015 6:52:06 PM PST by kathsua
That actually is not true. In many cases, the manner in which the doctor discloses the mistake has a lot to do with whether the family sues or not. I know a gynecologist who did a hysterectomy on a perfectly healthy woman as a result of flawed lab tests. When she told the woman very apologetically what had happened, the woman told her it was okay, mistakes happen, and she did not sue.
You are welcome. This situation is *not* analogous to that of Terri Schindler (out of respect for her, I will not tag her with her traitorous “husband’s” name).
I am so sorry for you and your parents. Brain diseases are never easy to deal with. Many prayers to your family.
My statement stands despite a personal anecdote — of course not all sue. In addition, doctors don’t know how the patient will respond beforehand. Knowing the risk, choosing not to risk it is entirely understandable.
You are sliding in to the delusional.
You stated within months she would be decayed.
It is now two years and she has not decayed.
You therefore spin outlandish scenarios.
The "inane analogy" is meant to convey an extremely important point, which you seem intent on avoiding. It is that biological life is merely the mechanical and chemical functions of collections of certain kinds of organic molecules. Biological life alone is not sufficient for a person to exist. A person is much, much more than the mere physical function of molecules.
I also recommend a refresher course in cell culture and in basic A&P to address your difficulty in understanding the difference between cells and tissue.
If you are knowledgeable about these subjects, then you know that I have not said anything incorrect. Also, I speak as a person who has long experience with cell/tissue culture: people who work in the field do not make much of a distinction, since what is a cell but a unit of a tissue? People who work in the field know that cells placed in flasks spontaneously take on properties of tissues: lung cells form impermeable membranes, connective tissue cells form filamentous structures, muscle cells contract, heart cells beat, nerve cells conduct signals and form connections, etc. And, despite laboratory cells' spontaneous behavior as tissues, human cells/tissues are not human beings. FYI, we scientists use the words "cell" and "tissue" interchangeably in many contexts.
Look, you keep avoiding the issue which is it has been two years and by now according to you and others her body ought to have fully rotted away.
I pointed out then that certain things were happening, and I have no reason to think that they have not proceeded as far as possible under the circumstances. The burden of proof is on you to present evidence that the body has NOT deteriorated to the point where toxic by-products of decay have poisoned the heart and lungs to the point of non-operability. As I keep saying, there is no proof that Jahi's body is still hooked to the machines--there has been no independently verifiable report of her status for over a year now. The family was supposed to return her body to the coroner in Oakland once the heart ceased beating, but they could have defied that order and had her buried or cremated in order to keep the donations going. I don't know, and neither do you.
I will say that I have been distracted for the last couple of hours looking at whatever information I can find on Jahi Mcmath. I did not find any news of her current condition, although I did find comments on various websites expressing the opinion that Jahi is in a deep freeze somewhere. I was looking for the testimony of a nurse who cared for Jahi at Children's hospital in Oakland, who described that Jahi was passing sloughed off intestinal lining before leaving that hospital; that alone indicates that the body was decaying. I did not find the testimony, but that does not mean I can't find it again. What I did find is interesting: a discussion of a legal document that may or may not have been filed in early 2015. That document was written in the first section as a wrongful injury complaint, but later switches to a wrongful death complaint. Goodness.
You were wrong.
If I am wrong on something, please specify exactly what it is.
It is now two years and she has not decayed.
The body was already decaying at the time it was removed from the hospital; there is court testimony from one of the nurses who had to care for Jahi that states that.
If you have evidence that Jahi's body is still being maintained in some fiction of life, please provide it. Undated photos posted on Facebook and videos of Jahi exhibiting the Lazarus sign made soon after her death don't prove anything.
BTW, this insistence that dead people can somehow return to life if we just keep taking care of them only serves to make pro-life people look like scientifically illiterate kooks. There is plenty of scientific support for pro-life positions--no need to go off into kook land, unless you are *trying* to discredit the pro-life position.
“The burden of proof is on you to present evidence that the body has NOT deteriorated to the point where toxic by-products of decay have poisoned the heart and lungs to the point of non-operability. As I keep saying, there is no proof that Jahi’s body is still hooked to the machines—there has been no independently verifiable report of her status for over a year now. The family was supposed to return her body to the coroner in Oakland once the heart ceased beating, but they could have defied that order and had her buried or cremated in order to keep the donations going. I don’t know, and neither do you.”
Again. You have entered the realm of delusion and conspiracy, having to spin purely imaginative yarns to ...I’m not sure to what end you make this stuff up.
You claim people stole her body and we must disprove your claim or else you deem it true?
Perhaps in addition to remedial cell culture we can add logic to the refresher classes you need.
“Biological life alone is not sufficient for a person to exist. A person is much, much more than the mere physical function of molecules.”
Of course, it is a clump of cells, of no import early on
ExDemMom, you are all over the place and I don’t think you know what you are even addressing or talking about anymore.
As to where you were wrong two years ago, I posted links to your comments and told you. You, in response, resort to conspiracy theory.
In the situation I saw first hand, it was very obvious that the baby was deceased. Tragic situation and tests went on for 3 days.
However, have you heard of the situation where dad stopped doctors with a handgun from removing his son from life support and harvesting organs? Son recovered and is alive today.
When you have independently verifiable proof that Jahi's body is still hooked to machines and not buried or stashed away in a morgue someplace, get back to me, okay?
Again. You have entered the realm of delusion and conspiracy, having to spin purely imaginative yarns to ...I’m not sure to what end you make this stuff up.
Oh, there is no delusion involved in claiming that dead bodies rot. All I have to do is drive down the road and observe the condition of the dead animals in the gutter to see the truth of that. There are also youtube videos that show the process.
You claim people stole her body and we must disprove your claim or else you deem it true?
Odd, I did not say anywhere that anyone has stolen Jahi's body. As I recall, a judge allowed her family to remove it from Children's Hospital of Oakland in an ambulance. Since the judge allowed it, it is not theft. What the family and lawyer have done with the body since then is anyone's guess. The burden of proof really is on you to provide evidence that the body is still hooked up to machines in a semblance of life.
Of course, it is a clump of cells, of no import early on
The brain forms between weeks 2 and 5 post-conception. As soon as cells differentiate into a specific tissue type, they function as that tissue type. Thus it is reasonable to think that, sometime during that 3 week period of brain formation, the embryo becomes aware of its environment and thus is a person. Of course, this is a contrast to the process at the other end of life, when that same brain ceases to function and a person no longer exists.
ExDemMom, you are all over the place and I don’t think you know what you are even addressing or talking about anymore.
I've been completely consistent. Usually, I get the complaint that I am inconsistent after I patiently explain the facts over and over in different ways because the person trying to deny the facts keeps changing things around to try to trip me up. You cannot trip me up because medical science is remarkably consistent on the topic of what we know about the function of the human body.
I am as well.....and agree regarding Terri....there was "life" there to sustain. But with Jahi's decomposing corpse being artificially sustained it's just not remotely the same.
Though the mother has attempted to "dress" this photo, and use black and white rather than colored, you can see the decomposition in her hands and above the acrylic nails as well as the bloating ....even the shape of the fingers....which have shown in other photos have "curled" as is normal for a corpse, they continually "shape" her hands to appear as if they aren't.
I've viewed all known photos and it's abundantly clear the mother/family goes to great lengths to mask the obvious....which they can no longer do as those with trained eyes can see.
Jahi is indeed rotting.
It is an affront that the taxpayer is being forced to pay for this affront.
Because her family sure as heck isn’t going to pay the $1 million plus bill.
Yeah... those areas of necrosis just above the nail beds on the right hand and the necrotic spots on the fingers of the left hand do not look very good. Neither does the swelling.
I wonder about the mental status of a woman who would continue to pretend her daughter’s corpse is alive long after the child is dead. It is seriously unbalanced.
I have not seen this pic before—I wonder if it was taken before or after the pic with Jahi’s eyes covered with heart bandages?
I admit, I am highly skeptical that the heart is still beating after all this time.
The family put themselves between a rock and hard place......if they unhook her they can be sued for desecration of a corpse...... So they have to keep her body chocked full of vitamins, hormones etc....plus a very cold room to slow down the decomposition and so it doesn’t stink so bad....the odor has to be overwhelming!
It will be interesting to see what the courts do if and when they have no choice but to remove the body.
I don't think this has to do with the mother's unwillingness to let her daughter go......her history of posting overall indicates to me this is more about the scam the attorney saw he could get, and the family's willingness to play along, has actually backfired on them....this is clearly now an abuse of a corpse though I can't imagine anyone suing them. Most just want it to be a done deal.
You will talk about anything except your own assertions of two tears ago.
Again, address this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3108741/posts?page=31#31
Looking at the figures in the article, it appears that the longest they have kept a corpse somewhat functional after death is about 52 days.
This group, led by T. Yoshioka of Osaka University Medical School, Japan, apparently has done a number of studies in brain dead people.
In any case, I doubt that the heart will continue to beat in this corpse for much longer. Almost certainly, whatever facility they moved her to will not have advanced life-support equipment. The length of time this corpse has been kept ventilated is already beyond the average seen in Yoshioka’s studies (23.1 +/- 19.1 days) (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3714004).
—
You said two years ago the heart would not beat much longer.
You were wrong.
Way wrong, not even close to being right.
“.if they unhook her they can be sued for desecration of a corpse”
Sued by whom?
You just make stuff up.
You are like the face on Mars psychos.
There were quite a few people during the polio epidemics that ended up totally unable to breathe, but as alive as you or I.
They ended up on “iron lung” machines, for as long as their days were.
You were wrong.
Way wrong, not even close to being right.
As I said before, where is there any evidence that Jahi's corpse is still hooked to machines to give it a semblance of life?
Old videos showing Lazarus reflexes, undated pictures showing spots of necrosis (that is, blackened dead spots) and bloating, and an undated MRI showing that what remains of the brain is shrunken, fragmented, and probably mummified do not constitute proof that Jahi's heart continues to beat. If anything, what little evidence there is shows that the body continued to deteriorate after it was removed from the hospital.
Proof that Jahi is really alive would be easfy to present, if she were actually alive, don't you think?
You are retreating even more in to fantasyland.
Here is an article from last August that is intellectually honest and is of interest to those of us with a scientific interest in this case.
Excerpts:
“While a brain-dead patient’s heart can beat briefly, Jahi’s heart and blood pressure have been stable for 18 months, something virtually unprecedented with the diagnosis of brain death. The original diagnosis may have been wrong — a disconcerting possibility — or the concept of brain death must be updated for the 21st century.”
” In cases of properly diagnosed brain death, no patient has ever recovered to come off a ventilator. The heart continues beating only because of the ventilator and drugs occasionally given to sustain blood pressure (usually if patients are organ donors).
However, even in brain death, machines and drugs ultimately will not sustain the heart. Even with patients on the ventilator, the heart usually stops within hours to days, and patients “die†in the widely understood sense.”
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