Posted on 11/25/2015 9:26:30 AM PST by amorphous
If there was no GC warning from Syrian / Russian defense radar, than the Turkish Viper’s could have simply taken a boresight AIM-9 shot without radar lock. With no radar lock there is no EW threat to evade or engage. It would appear that the Vipor’s were directed to within VFR range for a boresight shot from 6 O’clock.
With so many opposing forces in such close proximity, it was bound to happen. I look for it to happen again as things continue to heat-up in the region. There is a real danger we could be in a worldwide ho holds-barred shooting war in just a matter of a days over the M.E. Worse, there are actors in this who are egging it on.
The Russian pilot is correct in this. The Turkish Jets should have paralleled the Russian jet and shown themselves.
I think the orders were given to help out their muzzie jihad buddies hanging out close to Turkey’s border, who were taking a pounding from Ruskie aircraft.
The next Turkish Aircraft that bombs Kurds in Syria will probably be shot down in Syria. It could also be a very cold winter in Turkey without Russian Natural Gas.
My thinking is identical to your first four sentences.
But regarding the 5th sentence, I agree with the Ruskie that they should have come along side them, considering the speed differences.
My question to anyone, preferable a pilot, is how did the Turk’s warn the Ruskie? Via voice message or some electronic signal?
My point is, if it’s by voice message, try and say, 10 times in 17 seconds: “You are in Turkish airspace, get out or we will fire”.
My bet is the Ruskies were tracked with anticipation of their going into Turkish airspace which enabled the Turks to be very quick with their kill. 17 seconds is very little time to do something like that without first having the intentions. In essence, the Russians were being stalked which from an airspace defense position, is probably a good thing.
The Kurds are Muslims but right now they are more worried about their Muslim enemies, the Turks Issis and the Iranians than us. They are allies of convenience.
This was a planned and coordinated intercept by Turkey. The real failure was Russian ground radar inability to pick up the Turkish bandits and warn Fenser of the threat boggies approaching from their 3 O’clock or 6 O’clock position. The Vipor’s got within 5-10 miles and once they had missile tone they uncaged the seeker head and took a boresight shot without radar lock. From now on their will be SU-27’s or Mig-29’s within operational CAP of those strike aircraft and they will not be caught with their pants down again. Turkey got in a sucker punch and picked to big of a fighter to mess with.
Who Said It? "A Short-Term Border Violation Can Never Be A Pretext For An Attack"
And russians have shot down 15 US planes during the Cold War as well as KAL 007. They are not pure in this world, not by a longshot.
I am going to have to side with Russia on this one. Lets not forget the Turkish at the soccer game booing the moment of silence for France. Then there where cheers of allah-akbar....
This was a planned and coordinated intercept by Turkey...
I wonder what else was happening in that area. Arms delivery? I guess we will never know.
Supposedly they crossed over a little jut-out of Turkish land that was 1.15 miles wide. Going around 800+mph they would have cleared it in 5 seconds.
Turkey claims they spent 17 seconds in their airspace. This would mean they were only flying around 240mph
I was stationed in Alaska in the mid to late 70s and the Russians/Soviets approached very close to and, on a few occasions, penetrated well into US/Alaskan airspace. Even though we had F-4s and F-15s and three Nike Hercules batteries, we never shot down a Russian aircraft. On most occasions, they were warned and escorted out of our airspace.
KAL 007 was a pretty different situation that was instigated by the Soviets. Unfortunately, all the details of that situation are still classified.
17 seconds . . . that's not enough time to warn an aircraft and have the aircraft react, PERIOD. Therefore this was preplanned by the Turks. They were waiting for someone to make a minor mistake or even to get within ten miles of the border since they claim a "buffer zone" ten miles deep within Syria.
It would be good to know if the Vipor's were routinely actively using their A/A radar without locking up any of the Russian aircraft. As you say this would give the Russians a false sense of security knowing where a threat was and what to look out for. In this case the Fenser's had no clue the Turkish fighters were up and a complete failure of Russian GC to warn their strike group of a nearby threat. The Vipor's laid a trap and took a boresight AIM-9 shot. This required Turkish coordinated GCI radar to direct the Vipor's to within VFR of the target. Similar to passive radar and or AWAC vectoring or even GCI through datalink direction. Don't know Turkish datalink capability.
Good point.
Turkey probably needed to put a warning shot across Putins bow. He has been acting remarkably recklessly.
However, how they did it puts them in the wrong based on accepting international standards.
Two thoughts The Turks thought they needs to put a warning shot across Putins bows. There are things in that area the Turks want to protect. Which raises the interesting question, just which side is Turkey actually on?
Russian guided missile cruiser Moskva is going to repay Turkey in kind right up one of their F-16’s tailpipe.
Rudskoy said the Russian warplane did not violate Turkish airspace. Additionally, according to the Hmeymim airfield radar, it was the Turkish fighter jet that actually entered Syrian airspace as it attacked the Russian bomber.
The Turkish fighter jet made no attempts to contact Russian pilots before attacking the bomber, Rudskoy added.
We assume the strike was carried out with a close range missile with an infra-red seeker, Rudskoy said. The Turkish jet made no attempts to communicate or establish visual contact with our crew that our equipment would have registered. The Su-24 was hit by a missile over Syrian territory.
Different radio frequencies?
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