Posted on 11/21/2015 5:15:59 PM PST by kindred
“IOWs most English versions are dhimmi-proofed to remove or mask the true jihadi intentions clearly stated in the Arabic text originals.”
Who gives a damn about the Koran except those who use it as tool, one version or another - dismiss it!
All one needs to know or learn about is history of Islam from its violent inception. In fact the Iranians, Islamic or not, know the Islamic actions by atrocious DEED, not words.
The West must support those non-Islamic Iranians (many more of them than Islamic ones, in fact some Arabs too). GWB failed to do that as did others since Carter.
And keep them from infesting your country.
The Muslim brotherhood, al Qaida, Hezbollah, pa/PLO, Hamas, Isis, and Iranian islamonazis etc — all behave exactly as their idol Mohammed did in attacking, terrorizing, raping, torturing, subjugating, and mass- murdering innocent human beings -— they’re all true Moslems — followers of Mohammed -— see:
http://www.islam-watch.org/Larry/Muhammad-Massacres-and-Sex-slaves.htm
That was my original point here.
My remarks about the Koran were part of a conversation I was having.
Nothing against you; sometimes we need to expand on points.
Discussions about the Koran are moot points, am afraid; because others generally on the internet (which is a much bigger community than FR) come up with counter-interpretations about the Koran and its content. And, since you can interpret ever-changing words from another language & translations, in infinite ways, words are useless.
Historical Deeds are much better to judge by.
No more ‘reforming Islam’, it has Failed & got worse; if Islamic Reform happens by default, then good. If not, then too bad. Just dismiss and we need to get on with deeds (am stating this generally, not specific to you).
I got a test that`s as tasty as it is effective, I call it the Bacon Test. You fry up some crispy delicious bacon and make them EAT IT! My personal favorite, BLT, yumy!!!
Good, old Bibi. What a great ally! /sarc
According to Wikipedia there are 1.57 billion Muslims, and that includes one large Muslim country, Pakistan, that already has nuclear weapons. If we define the enemy as Islam itself, and act upon it, we're in for a bloodbath (and the blood will not only be their blood but our blood as well). I'm pessimistic about our chances of avoiding nuclear terrorism as it is, but if we take on the entire Muslim world, it's almost a certainty. We couldn't kill all the Muslims, even if we felt justified in killing millions of men, women, and children (children who have had no chance to make moral judgments about it).
Just as with Judaism and Christianity a large number of Muslims are ignorant of the teachings of Islam, and Muslims in name only. There's much in the Old Testament and New Testament too, that would cause major problems if people took it literally as applicable to them. For instance, there are horrific punishments for some things in the Old Testament -- much like Sharia law -- and the New Testament too has its defects when used as a formula for a modern society.
It wasn't intended for that, though. The New Testament pacifism and "laying up of treasures in heaven rather than on earth" are otherworldy in intent. How many modern-day Christians are laying up treasures in heaven rather than on earth? How many are pacifists and turn the other cheek, and refuse to resort to using the "sword" (because those who "live by the sword will die by the sword" -- those are quotations from memory, but I can look them up if need be). That's fine if all that really matters is to live a life of spiritual purity and reap benefits in a world to come. It's not a good policy for societies, though, not for persons who wish to live long and happy lives on this earth, as it is now.
Likewise Muslims can be “corrupted” by the blandishments of life in the here and now. Not many of them wish to become suicide bombers, and we need to take advantage of that. Most of them won’t fight unless we define Muslims themselves as the enemy, and come right at them. I have no problem with recognizing that many of the tenets of Islam itself are contrary to the principles on which the United States and other Western societies are based, and with criticizing the religion on sites such as this. (The first amendment should entitle us to that right.) As a national policy, though, it’s best to define the enemy as Islamism, not as Islam. (And Netanyahu, who’s himself in the middle of the struggle, realizes that.)
Of course, that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be disgusted by distortions such as the false claim that Islam is a “religion of peace” (it isn’t, unless you define it very narrowly, and ignore its history). Also that doesn’t mean that we’re obliged to observe Islam’s taboos. I have no problem with protecting the right of people to offend some Muslims by publishing images of Mohammed. After all, the various sects of Christianity are no longer allowed to deem members of other sects heretics and kill them for blaspheming against their religion (and it took over a thousand years to win that right). Why should we give it up with respect to Islam. We’re fools if we allow them to intimidate us.
The enemies we need to most concerned about, though, are the radical Islamists. I don’t care how much ordinary Muslims dislike something. They can be opposed in the arena of ideas and through peaceful discourse. It’s when they resort to violence that I have a problem.
Excellent read...please distribute...to ignore is to accept all this nonsense
AMERICAN AIRLINES' PILOT SPEAKS HIS MIND
No name calling, no hatred, no political agenda.
CANADIAN COMMENT APPEARS AT THE END OF THE ARTICLE AND IS MEANINGFUL.
THERE IS ALSO SOME RECENTLY ADDED BRITISH COMMENT.
This pilot hit the nail right on the head in his open letter.
A newspaper stated that some Muslim doctor is saying we are profiling him because he has been checked three times while getting on an airplane.The following is a letter from a pilot.This well spoken man, who is a pilot with American Airlines, says what is in his heart, beautifully.
YOU WORRY ME!
By Captain John Maniscalco, American Airlines Pilot
I've been trying to say this since 911, but you worry me. I wish you didn't. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don't blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me.
I notice you because I can't help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends for more than 20 years now. I don't fully understand their grievances and hate, but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks.
On September 11, ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings, killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children's mothers.
The Palestinians celebrated, the Iraqis were overjoyed as was most of the Arab world. So, I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to be consumed by the same rage, hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists. But I need your help. As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab/Muslim terrorist.
How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim Americans and the Arab/Muslim terrorists in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter MORE of the same good neighbors and children?
The events of September 11 changed the answer.. It is not MY responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of its religions, with ALL of its different citizens, with all of its faults. It is time for every Arab/Muslim in this country to determine it for me.
I want to know, I DEMAND to know and I have a right to know, whether or not you love America ..... Do you pledge allegiance to its flag? Do you proudly display it in front of your house, or on your car? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation; that He will protect it and let it prosper? Or do you pray that Allah with destroy it in one of your Jihads? Are you thankful for the freedom that this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by also paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America ? ? If this is your commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it.
Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts on your faith, and what hard actions YOU are taking as a community and as a religion to protect the United States of America . Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent, because I worry about who you regard as innocent.... No more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks, because I worry about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more sympathy; I am interested only in action. What will you do for America - our great country - at this time of crisis, at this time of war?
I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting 'Allah Bless America '. I want to see young Arab/Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole.
The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize right now in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are. Hand them over to us, NOW! But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals.
The very few Arab/Muslim representatives that HAVE appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States proves who was responsible before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims from violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad than they did with supporting our country and denouncing 'leaders' like Khadafi, Hussein, Farrakhan, and Arafat.
IF the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people, then I want chapter and verse from the Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it if the teachings in the Koran are good, pure, and true, when your 'leaders' ARE teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and intolerance? It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE if huge numbers of the world's Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion. A form that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death, and suicide. A form whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members (some as young as five years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam.
We will NEVER allow the attacks of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us -- our rights under the greatest constitution in the world. I want to know where every Arab Muslim in this country stands and I think it is my right and the right of every true citizen of this country to DEMAND it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters who died protecting the very constitution that is protecting you and your family.
I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American...... But there can be no gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance, and it is up to YOU, to show ME, where YOU stand. Until then, "YOU WORRY ME!"
PFL
GJones2,
Read your 2 posts to which i was pinged.
The terrorists we know claim to belong to the religion of Islam. Further subscribe to the ideology called Islamism.
The basis for ANY religion is that religion’s prophet or messenger’s actions for its followers to emulate. Particularly in times of ‘hardship’.
Mohammad and his immediate followers, in the first instance, were violent and STARTED wars with neighboring countries, as well as spreading their violent teachings. When violence failed, they instigated more violence in tandem with lies, deception, and forceful, softer enticements to gain POWER. This is an Historical fact.
I don’t care who follows Islam or Islamism. Nowadays, lines are blurred, and require clarity, which we in general won’t have any time soon.
If one is an ACTIVE and PRACTICING Muslim, one needs to make choices. IF you kill in the name of a religion or ideology, it’s natural you’ll give it a BAD name; whether you believe in it or not.
Those who aid the Islamic violence are equally at fault.
End the cycle and end the violence, simple as said.
Though since the same Islam is used for Political purpose, by more than the muslims, I’m guessing neither the cycle nor the violence will end any time soon.
I'm sorry to say I agree.
> "The basis for ANY religion is that religion's prophet or messenger's actions for its followers to emulate. Particularly in times of 'hardship'."
That may be the basis, but over the centuries nominal followers tend to go off on paths of their own. How many Lutherans are much like Luther? How many Methodists are like John Wesley? For that matter how many Christians imitate Christ? Thomas a Kempis wrote a book called The Imitation of Christ (in Latin De Imitatione Christi). With very few exceptions not much of it reminds me of modern Christians.
“That may be the basis, but over the centuries nominal followers tend to go off on paths of their own. How many Lutherans are much like Luther? How many Methodists are like John Wesley?”
Ok.
Though most terrorists by far in the last 4 decades have called themselves Muslims.
> “YOU WORRY ME! By Captain John Maniscalco”
Parts of the quoted passage are eloquent and — even better — sensible. :-) I’m worried too. I’ll go along with the suspicion. (As Odds just said, “...most terrorists by far in the last 4 decades have called themselves Muslims.”) I don’t think it’s a good idea to define the enemy as Muslims, though. Keeping the religious context, I’ll refer you to the Biblical passages about the Good Samaritan.
Muslims are already fighting each other more than they’re fighting us. It’s in our interest not to view them all as a single monolithic block, and as much as possible to try to separate the Islamists from the others. For instance, most Kurds are Muslims, but often only loosely so, and of many varieties. (According to Wikipedia, “Traditionally, Kurds have been known to take great liberties with their practices. This sentiment is reflected in the saying ‘Compared to the unbeliever, the Kurd is a Muslim’.”)
They’ve been fighting with great courage against ISIS. I don’t consider them enemies. The same goes for any other Muslims who are opposing radical Islamists (or just not helping them).
Islam: The Mohammed Factor
If you condemn murder you condemn Mohammed.
If you condemn thievery you condemn Mohammed.
If you condemn rape you condemn Mohammed.
If you condemn pedophilia you condemn Mohammed.
If you condemn terrorism you condemn Mohammed.
If you condemn Mohammed you condemn Islam.
muslim brotherhood family ya know
The is though, how can we de-Nazify militant islam without getting rid of islam itself?
Hooray for Barry, championing the cause...of the Muslim Brotherhood.
In parallel the US and allies (if we have any left under Obama) should pressure all of Islam. This begins by diminishing all Islamic rights worldwide. Deprive them of property. Isolate them. Close their mosques. Confiscate their property. Reduce their employment. Control their travel. Freeze their bank accounts. Expel them. Ban face coverings, burkas and veils. Brand Islam as a religion of conquest, violence, and intolerance. Hunt jihadists and incarcerate them. Outlaw their writings. Cancel their citizenship. Deny them private property. Revoke their visas and passports. Give no sanctuary. Control their hate-speech. Take their money. Allow them no weapons. Expel them from colleges and universities. Do not allow them to teach. Deny all licenses including drivers’.
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