[ Vanity ] Trump needs Carson to split evangelical votes and block Cruz

[springwater13]

I really hope Trump isn't making a tactical error by kicking Carson when he is down. My view is that Carson is a kook with crazy 7th day adventist theories (grain in the pyramids) as well as terrible democratic positions on key issues (2nd amend, amnesty, TPP Obamatrade). He will implode on his own schedule and doesn't need Trump to help him along. He is in the campaign to sell books and build his brand.

But Carson is very effective as a vote splitter to block Cruz from winning Iowa and gaining traction. There will always be a sizable percentage of the republican party (especially among evangelicals) that will be resistant to Donald Trump because of his personalty, history, religious questions etc.

I think the biggest danger to Trump is not Rubio but Cruz. Cruz can effectively consolidate the evangelicals with the outsider tea party folks and that is a danger to Trump long term.

Trump needs Carson to dilute the evangelical vote so Cruz doesn't get traction. I don't think it is in Trump's interests to have Carson implode right now. Where would pissed off Carson's support go? I think a lot of it goes to Cruz and long term Cruz is much more dangerous to Trump than Carson. If Cruz wins Iowa, Trump has major problems. If Carson wins Iowa, I think he can be marginalized as a kook later on as Iowa being Iowa. Of course, if Trump wins Iowa, katy bar the door. There is no stopping him.

[jpsb]

"By the way, I can’t find any evidence in Cruz supporting a border wall, prior to Trump making it the centerpiece of his campaign."

On most issues Cruz is the "me too" candidate after Trump takes the lead on said issue.

[jpsb]

" I would like to ask you why you felt it necessary to attack me personally?"

Playing the victim again? That seems to be your favorite trick once you being to lose the argument. If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

[Jane Long]

Just posted that on another thread...maybe a Surgeon General, Sec’y of HHS.

[FreeReign]

After they are deported Trump proposes to readmit them. He does not tell us on what basis he would choose whom to admit and whom to exclude, only that it would be those people he thinks that are "wonderful"or is it those people who are "terrific"? I assume that each one of these adjectives defines a different class.

Sometimes it's just the "good" ones.

And the good/terrific/wonderful ones are the only group of illegals that he describes that aren't rapists, drug dealers and criminals.

[nathanbedford]

You and I have had fun arguing these positions for some time now, long enough for you to know that I agree with you that immigration is the make or break existential issue for the Republican Party, the conservative movement and for the Republic. You will also note as the careful poster that I have in this very thread acknowledged the preeminence of immigration.

Our disagreement comes in terms of whether there is a real and significant difference in the governance we would get out of Trump or Cruz on this issue. For reasons stated on this thread I think the Trump's position is incoherent and his biography leads me to suspect that he will be less than conservative in his application of whom he would readmit into the country. I do not trust him.

Moreover, I believe the Cruz is far more conservative on the issue of immigration and we have given him credit for, he has led the fight against amnesty (after Sessions) and has done much in the other body to encourage them not to pass the gang of eight Bill.

I think Cruz will be just fine on immigration. It is important that we do not conflate jobs with voting. Our first and most important objective is to stop these people from voting. The problem is-and note I am trying to be as forthcoming as possible and as honest as possible in this argument-that once the aliens are in country even under an arrangement which provides amnesty but not citizenship, sanctuary cities and sanctuary states will simply permit them to vote.

So the point is they must be somehow gotten rid of but you cannot do it by forcing them in boxcars and shipping them off to Mexico with the newsreel cameras grinding away. Romney had it right, it has to be self deportation and that can only come by denying entitlements, safety net, and jobs. The idea that Trump is going to forcibly deport up but 11 the 30 million people on the road to Mexico is just plain silly. It is logistically, financially, morally, and politically impossible. It must be self deportation.

[nathanbedford]

There you go again.

[SmokingJoe]

Not on fast track and immigration

Ted Cruz is a beck of a lot more conservative than Donald Trump. Is it not Donald Trump who actually backed Obama’s illegal, unconstitutional, lawless “Dream Act” executive order?

No one has fought more pointlessly

Yeah?
You'd better read this:
kip to comments.

BOOM! TED CRUZ SCHOOLS BRET BAIER ON THE FALSE NOTION THAT HE HASN’T WON ANY FIGHTS

freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3354470/posts

And this from Rush Limbaugh on the general same subject:

RUSH: So you havent won anything. Youve led a bunch of fights but you haven't won anything, and hes able to recite, rat tat tat without a single stutter, without forgetting where he was and what he was saying three different occasions where he has stopped the left in its tracks, which is what Republicans were elected to do in 2011 and 2012, although they didnt win, and 2014. This is what they were elected to do was to go there and stop. Before you can reverse direction you have to stop the direction you are headed in, and Cruz has mounted the efforts.
freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3355701/posts

Read the whole thing. You might learn something. But then again you might not.

[SmokingJoe]

The Patriot Act was put in place after 9/11 to combat Islamic terrorism. Conservatives have traditionally backed the Patriot Act. On the other hand, libertarians like Rand Paul and his daddy have always opposed it. Ted Cruz was will within his conservative principles to back the Patriot Act, unlike Trump who backed Obama’s illegal, unconstitutional, lawless “Dream Act” which conservatives hate.

[duffee]

Thank you for the common sense best post of the day.

[Duchess47]

Sir, you post as an honest person, giving those of us reading a reasoned, honest, logical recital of facts. That is not the case.

Donald Trump developed his immigration policy with the help and guidance of Senator Jeff Sessions. Senator Sessions is not given to incoherent and logistically impossible ideas.

Trump has also stated (millions of times, in speeches and interviews) that those who come back MUST come back legally.

If you look at Trump’s website you will see he has written positions on Immigration, Taxes, Veterans and the Second Ammendment.

If you look at Cruz’s website you will see you can pick Spanish as a language to view the website, you can sure donate money, you can read about his tax plan, you can support Kate’s Law (didn’t that already fail?) and on the list of items that are important to you, immigration is listed last.

[jpsb]

If Cruz is the more conservative candidate on the most important issue of our times than why did he not raise the issue before Trump got in the race? Cruz knows being against amnesty is a winning issue with conservatives but he remained silent on that issue. To this day he is still silent on immigration in general and amnesty in particular. Meygan Kelly tried to pin him down of immigration and he flat out refused to answer her. You are giving Cruz a pass on the single most important issue because?

Trump has made illegal immigration the center piece of his campaign if elected him will have a mandate to do what he is promising to do. Enforce existing law, and that includes no benefits for those here illegally (Romney's self deport). The entire western world is revolting against open borders. That your candidate does not make the case to US voters that open borders is a bad policy for America is very troubling and does not give me any confidence that Cruz is better than Trump on immigration.

So I'll stick with the one that PROMISES to secure the border and repatriate illegals instead of the one might maybe do something in spite of the fact that he's said in the past that he is open to legal status for illegals.

[jpsb]

The Patriot Act rips the 4th amendment to shreds, no one that believes in our Constitution supports the Patriot Act.

[taildragger]

"I think the biggest danger to Trump is not Rubio but Cruz."

IMHO a bigger danger to Conservatism and a 2016 victory is Rubio.

Below the break line is what I posted last night and I stand by it...

---

"Plus, he is at this point sucking the wind from the Cruz, Trump and even the Rubio campaigns."

Dr Carson is far better a man than I will ever be, his accomplishments are unobtainium, his jabs at Political Correctness are historic and will resonate for decades perhaps. POTUS material? I am not sure. HHS and or Surgeon General? For sure.

My fear?

It is 2008 all over again. Carson is the Huckabee of 2016 and just like the Late Fred Thompson didn't have the energy to run etc he was the Conservative and between him leaving and Huckabee taking the Christian vote it let that RINO McCain run right up the middle.

It could happen again. The good Dr. falters, Ted Cruz does not catch fire, and we get that light weight / Chuck Schumer's Cabana Boy Marco Rubio running right up the middle and we are stuck with him as Jepito Press 2 for English mini me and a shill for the Chamber of Crony Capitalism. I can't pull the lever for Rubio, end of story.

Something has not sat right with me since he was talked about as being Romney's Veep. It hasn't left, I don't trust him, and from what I read he gets this gig or he his done, even his Fla constituents won't vote him in next time.

Just my 2 cents...

[jpsb]

Well stop playing the victim card :) you were not personally attacked. The poster just suggested your ability to discern reality was not up to par. Hardly a "personal attack". If you want to see a real personal attack check out that lots of Cruz supporter say to me, lol

[SmokingJoe]

No it doesn’t. And no one believes in and knows the constitution and has repeatedly proved it more than Ted Cruz.

[Georgia Girl 2]

Carson is a Cuckoo Ka Choo but his positions on the pertinent issues are enough to want him out of the race. The guy is clueless. The only reason he got this far is that until this past week he has avoided scrutiny. Now that the spotlight is on him he’s not holding up very well. Carson will stumble again in next week’s debate and I predict his fade is already started. Trump needs to get this nomination wrapped up and get ready to steamroll Hillary.

[Patton@Bastogne]

.


2015-11-08



Ted Cruz at Number-Two is Donald Trump's "Political Life Insurance Policy" that FORCES the GOPe-RINO Cartel to "allow" Donald Trump to win the 2016 GOP Presidential nomination.

I maintain that Donald Trump WANTS Ted Cruz at a SOLID Number-Two position in the polls ...

meaning that Dr. Ben Carson MUST be effectively knocked out the GOP Presidential Race (down to single digits polling) ...

along with Marco "Amnesty" Rubio.





Why ? does Donald Trump want Ted Cruz (his only genuine conservative rival) at Number-Two ?

To FORCE the GOPe-RINO wing to accept Donald Trump, knowing that if the GOPe-RINO folks destroy Donald Trump, then Ted Cruz (the GOPe-RINO's biggest fear) will win the 2016 GOP Presidential nomination.



Here's an example of that political strategy: Obama and Joe Biden.

Obama: Alinsky Socialist

Joe Biden: Genuine Village Idiot

A key reason that many Conservatives fear impeaching Obama is "President Joe Biden".

You know, the great Joe Biden who's the "Super Bowl MVP" of STUPID political gaffes.

So, Obama is protected from Impeachment because "no one" (Democrat or Republican) wants Joe Biden to PERMANENTLY WRECK either the United States of Democratic Party.



Dittos for the political relationship between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.


The "Washington Cartel Establishment" (Karl Rove, George Will, Dr. Krauthammer, et al) is TERRIFIED of a "President Ted Cruz".

The "GOPe-RINO Cartel" FEARS that a "President Ted Cruz" would (for the first time in decades) EFFECTIVLY DISMANTLE (agency-by-agency) the creeping UniParty socialism that's gradually turning the United States of America in the "new" Soviet Union.



The "GOPe-RINO Cartel" merely WORRIES that a "President Donald Trump" ... thinking he would be a one-term affair, and that they could "paint" Donald Trump as a gigantic failure.

So ... Donald Trump KNOWS that having Ted Cruz as his "Joe Biden" (in the eyes of the GOPe-RINO Cartel) guarentees his victory and election as 45th President of the United States.

Moreover, Donald Trump has issues in his past (business deals, flip-flops, et al) that the "GOPe-RINO Cartel" can and WILL use to Destroy Donald Trump.



Why do you think that Yeb Bush REFUSES to drop-out of the GOP Primaries ?

Yeb Bush KNOWS that he "has the goods" on Donald Trump, and can EASILY destroy Trump in Iowa, New Hampshire and especially Florida.

All it takes is "money" (lots of it) to run a MASSIVE number of TV-Radio ads.

That's EXACTLY how Mitt "Romney-Care" defeated Newt Gingrich in Florida in 2012. Money, Money, Money, Money, Money, Money ...

Mitt Romney spent $ 15 million in Florida ... Newt Gingich spent only about $ 1 million (I know, because I worked for Newt's Florida campaign)



Ted Cruz at Number-Two is Donald Trump's "Political Life Insurance Policy" that FORCES the GOPe-RINO Cartel to "allow" Donald Trump to win the 2016 GOP Presidential nomination.





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[FreeReign]

Trump has also stated (millions of times, in speeches and interviews) that those who come back MUST come back legally.

You are ignoring Trump's use of the word "expedite". He says that he will expedite them back legally.

We have existing laws that govern how people enter the country. There are existing quotas that determine how many people can get visas and come into the country every year. To expedite this process legally is to legally increase the quotas or to legally bring them back jumping the quota line.

As stated, that's a legalized, expedited, over and back amnesty for many millions.

[nathanbedford]

Of course I was personally attacked, read the whole attack but that is not what offends me. Snarkiness on these threads retards and does not advance the cause of conservatism.

Imagine some youngster awakening to politics and venturing into this forum to get a taste of conservatism only to be met with cheap shots. People who pepper their replies with condescension, derision, snarkiness, and in general indulge in ad hominem attacks do not advance their arguments and certainly would not make any converts of the kinds of youngsters that we would want to join the conservative movement. It seems to me that the last way I would choose to get voters for Donald Trump is to comport myself like Donald Trump.

Usually these tactics are resorted to not to win an argument but to make the poster feel better about himself, to paper over insecurity, or to distract the argument from the issue. I also find unappealing the use of :-) or LOL as though that clinches an argument. It only reveals an absence of resources.

Think about it the next time you drive by.

[FreeReign]

The Patriot Act rips the 4th amendment to shreds

Trump's position on Big Government's, NSA data collection...

"security has to preside...and be pre-eminent"

"if anyone wants to listen to my phone calls, it's fine"

"I think we have to err on the side of security"

"we don't love it, but we have probably not much of a choice"

"it doesn't seem to be very popular, what [Rand Paul's] doing"

"Most people seem to feel the way I do"

"My best trait will be security"

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