Posted on 10/27/2015 4:03:32 PM PDT by randita
As polls show Ben Carson catching - and even surpassing - Donald Trump, the brash businessman's attacks against his closest challenger have intensified. His remarks could backfire for being redundant, vague and hypocritical.
While Trump has been known for direct and personal verbal lobs against his opponents in the campaign, this is the first time he has found himself faced with another outsider who has risen above him in some recent key polls. And his strategy so far has yet to have any impact on Carson as the former pediatric neurosurgeon has refused to take the bait.
On MSNBC's Morning Joe Tuesday, Trump was quick to question Carson's appeal, insisting that under scrutiny, it won't continue. A "a lot of things will come out" about Carson's record, Trump said.
Trump challenged Carson's strict anti-abortion position, which Trump said wasn't always the same.
"Ben was pro-abortion not so long ago as everybody has told me," Trump said.
Trump was most likely referring to Carson's tenure as a pediatric neurosurgeon when he referred pregnant patients with genetic abnormalities to doctors who also perform abortions - a decision Carson defends pointing to the importance of "qualified medical supervision."
But the problem with Trump's statement is that his own record is not very consistent. In an interview on NBC's "Meet the Press" in 1999, Trump said that while he "hates" the idea of abortion he is "very pro-choice."
(Excerpt) Read more at nbcnews.com ...
what’s killing trump is that he is tone deaf on religious matters.
he doesn’t know that the denomination to which he nominally
belongs the presbyterian church (PCUSA) has gone completely apostate in the eyes of evanagelicals.
every time he brings up his denomination he reminds evangelicals that he’s on the wrong side of issues like homosexuality and abortion —which evangelicals are passionate about—because the denomination to which he belongs is liberal and on the wrong side on these issues.
Tennessee? Sure. I’d take that bet any time. Romney the Mormon won the state by approximately 20% (59.48% to 39.08%).
Any Republican nominee will win Tennessee.
Southern states in play will be the same as last time - VA, NC and Florida. The rest will all go Republican easily.
re: “A couple of days ago I had a Freeper who is SDA try for several hours to convince me that Jesus and the Archangel Michael are the same.”
I agree with you that Michael and Jesus are not the same. But, where on that official SDA website did it say that Jesus and Michael are one and the same? I know a lot of Christians who believe odd things, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t Christians, just mistaken. In their statement of faith about who Jesus is, it says He is God the Son, Second Person of the Trinity. That is Biblical truth. I didn’t see anything about Jesus being Michael.
“I saw a video today of Ben Carson saying that Conservatives would move to have Sunday declared the official Day of Worship. SDA’s believe that Sunday Worship is the Mark of the Beast.”
If that is his belief, then he is mistaken. Does that view mean he’s lost because he may think that worshiping on Sunday is wrong and the “mark of the beast”? No. A lot of Believers believe weird stuff when it comes to the book of Revelation. But, these are peripheral issues. What one believes about who Jesus is, that salvation is through Jesus, God the Son, Second Person of the Trinity and Him alone, that He was born, died on the cross for our sin, then rose bodily from the grave - that is essential doctrine, and that’s what they say they believe.
Even if the SDA think Michael and Jesus are the same, they are just mistaken on that, but if that was an essential doctrine for them, why didn’t they list that in what they believe about Jesus on their official statement of faith?
All cults deny the Trinity. SDA church does not do that. They may be wrong on many other issues, but the essential ones seem sound. Agree with me or don’t, but unless I see more evidence to the contrary, the SDA seems orthodox in their basic theology. But, it doesn’t really matter what I believe, it’s what God says in His Word that matters. All Believers do not agree on many, many peripheral things, but on essential Christian doctrine, all Christian denominations do. The doctrine of the Trinity is what separates all Christian denominations from non-christian groups.
Give me a break. The MSM and the RINOs are trying to move heaven and earth to find ANY alternative to Trump because they can’t stand somebody intelligently calling them out on their incompetence and self-enrichment on taxpayer dollars. I work with a ton of conservatives and I can’t find anybody who gives a crap about Carson.
Trump will sweep the South. Iowa is the only possible loss. I still don’t see Carson winning Iowa when its all said and done.
The nature of Cults is to deceive. They always try to present their faith as similar to the person they are trying to connect with.
My brother got involved with Jehovah’s Witnesses and finally got out before he dies. It was many months of brain washing before he was told that Jesus was the Archangel Michael. This is a doctrine that the SADs and JWs have in common. Both have their own translations of the Bible also.
Do a search on “Four Major Cults” and the SDA teaching on Jesus is the Archangel Michael. You will have no trouble verifying the doctrine.
A book called “Kingdom of the Cults” is one I read many years ago that has stuck with me.
Trump needs to stick to 3 talking points on Carson:
1. Carson wants to let all the illegals stay and give them citizenship.
2. Carson isn’t sure which weapons are really OK for the average American to be allowed to own.
3. Carson wants to do away with Medicare and give everybody $2,000 to put in a savings account to go toward their $10,000 to $20,000 annual premium which will bankrupt Mom in a year.
Just keep pounding it home.
Consider that there are two sets of laws in scripture. The Mosaic Law (II Corinthians 2) and the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments stand. We cannot keep them, but we try. SDA observe the same Hebrew Sabbath that Jesus and the apostles observed. The Sabbath did not “change” to Sunday until about 325AD. I am not SDA but I keep the Hebrew Sabbath (Saturday) - Not because I think it will save me, but because I love Him.
“Many nice people are deceived. Had you known that they were taught in their church that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon and that Sunday Worship is the Mark of the Beast, you might have felt a bit uncomfortable.”
There are numerous religions that consider the Catholic religion as worse than a cult. My relationship with people does not depend on their religion, especially that is true with family. I didn’t care if the family member believed in Goldilocks as his savior - it was family love that caused him to help us. I don’t grill people about their religion.
I actually think church should be on Saturday as that is the day God rested from his creation and ordered his people to also rest on that day.
“...I hope you are so right that Trump even presses his bombassedness to the hilt. Then turns it sideways, and keeps on pressing. Viva Carson! No?”
It’s a hypothesis as to why people are moving from Trump to Carson. I won’t know if that is true until some time goes by. Certainly, people like these on this forum who follow political movements every day, will be less affected by Trump’s outburst style. The majority of people will see him on TV after they get home from work, and they may react more strongly against his style and prefer Carson.
Let’s just cut to the chase, here. Can we?
*randita is a Freeper troll, hot on the trail of Trump supporters.
She was busy this morning filling in for and defending another Freeper troll, who consistently posts anti
Trump articles, and asks us to “respond” with “reason”.
When we DO respond, this troll jumps in and defends the other troll “not to get pushed into a corner”. LOL!!!
It’s troll #1 and troll #2 now.
My take on these things is if you stick your hand in the flame, you might not want to complain about the burn.
Who waves a red cape in front of a bull, but whines when it charges. We do charge around here, when anti-Trump stuff is regularly waving in our face. Imagine?
the reason that trumps numbers are going down vs carson is that trump is tone deaf on religious matters.
he doesn’t know that the denomination to which he nominally
belongs the presbyterian church (PCUSA) has gone completely apostate in the eyes of evanagelicals—that means the PCUSA has gone liberal. The presbyterian church (PCUSA) is liberal like the Liberal Episcopalians. Theologically
this means that both churches— like the unitarian church -—take the low view of christ. (however, this is unofficial. for people interested in presbyterian history—read J Gresham Machens’ Christianity & Liberalism)
Every time Trump brings up his denomination he reminds evangelicals that he’s on the wrong side of issues like homosexuality and abortion —which evangelicals are passionately opposed to—because the denomination
to which he belongs is liberal and on the wrong side on these issues.
these differences are non trivial. In the last couple of years evangelicals have begun to fear for the first time in hundreds of years—
that in the future they will be persecuted.
therefor trumps comments about his religion make him appear as a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
The seven day adventists are mainstream evangelicals—where mainstream means that they are trinitarians— whereas the PCUSA—in evangelical terms— has become a cult—and a dangerous one at that.
His numbers are down if you think the media is telling you the truth,
I don’t doubt his numbers are down in Iowa where they only want to hear scripture being said and ignoring the issues at and like open border, social justice, gun grabbing etc.
They went for Huckabee and then Rick S so it speaks volumes about what they want to hear.
The majority of people will see him on TV after they get home from work, and they may react more strongly against his style and prefer Carson.
We’ll have to agree to disagree, on that. I have working friends and family who are NOT politically engaged. They are all in for Trump...like nothing I’ve ever seen (from them) before.
They come home from work, and tune in to what Trump is saying. They’ve told me, “Trump is saying what I’ve been saying...for so long!” They don’t even know who Carson is, except for a doctor. They don’t know anything about where he stands on the issues. With Trump, they can list where he stands.
Thanks for your comments. I’m in no position to critique your comments about the PCUSA. I am not a member and I don’t know their beliefs.
I do believe some churches and religious entities such as the World Council of Churches, are less than optimal. In some instances they are clearly apostate/or worse.
Your comments could be right on target. I’m not really here to talk down other religions. If a topic comes up, I may address it, but I know all churches have great people in them.
I do think it’s important to consider our options, but people put things off, have lived a certain way all their life, are comfortable, and are all too much like the proverbial frog in a pot too.
Thanks for the comments.
I have a problem with women in leadership in the upper levels of church leadership, and homosexuality there as well.
Ladies, I apologize if this is offensive to you. I’m an old school person on this matter. As for the business environment, I fully support women in management positions. The church is different to me. Perhaps that’s a flaw, but at the current time I don’t see it that way.
"Carson is so popular with evangelicals in part because they’ve known him for years (his autobiography is a common assignment in Christian home-school curricula everywhere)."
So Trump's plan to peel them off by talking about Carson's SDA affiliation looks unlikely to succeed.
Your invective and uncivil post is yet another reminder that I have little to nothing in common with Trump supporters. Yours is a club that I have no desire to be part of.
If you believe that truth is on your side, there is no need to cast aspersions. Make your case and let others make theirs. Ridicule will not win converts, but Trump is the king of ridicule so he sets the example for his backers to follow.
No one is forcing you to click on threads you don’t agree with.
Barbra Streisand. We have not elected a single Billionaire in hundred years. We have been electing career politicians after career politicians, masquerading as constitutional conservatives. They lie before the election, then after election take refuge in the pockets of their rich donors.
May be we should try the rich donor himself directly this time. He will not have other rich donors pulling his chains.
We are done electing career politicians who lie before elections, then switch to serving their rich donor masters. Trump has two things going for him, one, he is not career politician, and two, he has no rich donors yanking his chain.
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