Amish man challenges photo ID requirement to buy firearms

and very good to eat. So are woodcocks.

Ah, the plaintive “peeent” of the woodcock. Not a lot of meat, but yummy, I’m sure.

Amish mafia

Did you think they were

From my dealing with Amish and Mennonites, I'll almost guarantee it has to do with combating Vanity.

There are many Amish sects around the country and while they are typically similar in their core beliefs (excepting for a few very extremely conservative groups like the very conservative Swartzentruber Amish Sect in Ohio and the Sam Mullet “offshoot Amish sect, located at Bergholz, Ohio (which one expert does not consider to be Amish due to departures from Amish Christian doctrine). Under Mullet’s leadership, group members carried out a series of attacks in which they sheared the beards of male Amish and the hair of one female in eastern Ohio in late 2011.)”, not all hold to exactly the same beliefs and practices when it comes to the use of technology outside of their homes and farms and things like photography:

“Some Amish completely refuse to allow themselves to be photographed. Posed photos in particularly may be seen as a show of pride. On the other hand, some Amish make a distinction between having one’s photo taken in a natural setting, vs. posing for a photo. Some have no problem with allowing themselves to be filmed or photographed, as long as it is obvious that they are not posing.” But FWIW, the Amish in general don’t like being photographed by tourists, especially without their permission, and I can’t say that I blame them.

http://amishamerica.com/what-do-amish-think-about-photography/

On guns - yes the Amish own guns and some even collect them and they use guns for eradicating pests and for hunting – many Amish are avid hunters but of course they use the meat for food but some may even go on hunting trips out West to hunt “big game”, although if I understand correctly, hunting purely for sport or for trophies or buying very expensive hunting gear, would be typically frowned upon by most Amish church leaders.

http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-use-guns/

But it is a misnomer that the Amish are against having any fun. I once saw several young Amish men at a put-put golf course in NE Maryland not far from the MD/ Lancaster PA border. But what was really interesting was that they got out of a big pickup truck and others out of a van with the logo of a commercial landscaping company on the side and that the truck and van was driven by and several of their “co-workers” were all black guys. But they all had great fun playing putt putt golf together.

And my brother told me that he saw several Amish families at the Stone Harbor, NJ beach on a mid-week day after Labor Day, doing all the things that any other family would do at the beach – picnicking, making sand castles, collecting sea shells, even playing ball toss and playing Frisbee and frolicking in the surf, although the Amish women and older girls didn’t venture in much past their ankles due to their long skirts and their sense of modesty and their clothing.

My brother asked one of the life guards about them he told my brother that there were some Amish farms now in Cape May County but also that some travelled from PA and some as far away as Ohio for the day, many hiring private vans and drivers to transport them. He told my brother that they liked coming there after Labor Day as it was a quiet beach town to begin with, without all the trappings of a boardwalk, etc, and much more quiet, less crowded at that time of year and on a week day and so they were less likely to be gawked at, photographed or harassed.

And yes, while they don’t own or drive motorized vehicles themselves and mostly use horse buggies to get around locally and use horse drawn plows for farming, many Amish will take busses, trains, even airplanes or use and pay for private transportation services. Their children will also ride in school busses to get to either a public school, but more typically to an Amish or Mennonite run parochial school.

But back in the early 70’s I attended a public elementary school in Elizabethtown, PA and there were several Old Order Mennonite kids and a few Amish kids in my 3rd grade class and aside from their dress, they were pretty much like all the rest of us, even during recess where the Amish kids would play baseball, kickball, basketball, hopscotch, play on the playground equipment, etc. just like the rest of us. I even became good friends with one Amish girl, we became good friends because we shared the same German first name.

And

“The Amish belief in nonresistance mean Amish will not serve in the military, law enforcement, or in any other position that requires them to use firearms against other people.”

I’m not sure what that means for the Amish as far as “self defense” as in protecting the life of a family member. I do know that the Amish have been increasingly subject to being robbed and assaulted or cruelly pranked due to criminals and pranksters thinking that their non-resistance makes them easy targets and that they will not report crimes against them to the police, and that many Amish businesses deal mostly in cash.

I also recall, I think it was last year that at an Amish roadside farm stand in NY, that two young Amish girls tending the stand were abducted, kidnapped and then sexually assaulted. Perhaps the Amish recognize that the “vermin”, despite their mostly rural existence may now also extend to “human vermin” and want to or may now feel the need to defend themselves or their families. While they reject many of the trappings of the modern world in the homes and their family lives, the “real world” sadly now encroaches on them.

But I also recall the Nickel Mines School ~~shooting~~ murders, the executions of 5 little innocent Amish girls by a depraved and very angry and bitter person who for no good reason took his anger and grief over the death of his youngest daughter at birth, his anger at God, that he took out for reasons beyond comprehension on these Amish girls, and the wounding of 5 other girls, one of them very severely injured, Rosanna who still suffers from her injuries, is suffering from brain damage to this day.

But what I remember most is how the Amish community came to the home of the wife of the murderer on the very evening of the murders and prayed with her and loved her, offered to her their condolences for the loss of her husband and their forgiveness to her and to him, not blaming her at all for her husband’s actions and even their forgiveness and prayers to the murderer and how they did the same with the killer’s mother and how many Amish - how nearly half of the people who attended the killer’s funeral were Amish, even among them, the Amish parents who had lost two daughters on that terrible day. To me it says a lot about the Amish and how they live their lives and extend their beliefs in forgiveness to others even beyond their own Amish families and close knit communizes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAmeJHXcw4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEWsxONOdI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1YjxX8qwjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRcxeHKbQhA

But it does seem a might bit inconsistent with being “pacifists and conscientious objectors.”

I would not be shocked at all if this Amish man was perhaps misquoted in the press as to the gun being needed for “self-defense” purposes. Either that or the type of gun he was trying to purchase was not one typically used for hunting and he had to say that it was for “self-defense”. In any case, it shouldn’t matter for what purpose he wanted the gun; he should, just like any other US citizen, should not have to give any reason to the government for why he was wanting to purchase it or for what purpose he intended to use it for.

There are a lot of Amish out my way and I've gotten familiar with some over the years. The ban on technology as I understood it is that anything that could interfere with the Family was not to be a part in their lives. Interfere is probably not the term they use but their lives are focused on Family and the tools that the "English" have detract from Family. That is why they can ride in cars but not drive them. It's more complicated than that but the more I know about them, the more I appreciate their ways.

Well said. I live in Central PA and work in rural Lancaster County and I have great respect for the Amish.

Here is a good website that has a lot of good information and dispels a lot of myths and misconceptions about the Amish.

http://amishamerica.com/faq/

From my dealing with Amish and Mennonites, I'll almost guarantee it has to do with combating Vanity.

There are many Amish sects around the country and while they are typically similar in their core beliefs (excepting for a few very extremely conservative groups like the very conservative Swartzentruber Amish Sect in Ohio and the Sam Mullet “offshoot Amish sect, located at Bergholz, Ohio (which one expert does not consider to be Amish due to departures from Amish Christian doctrine). Under Mullet’s leadership, group members carried out a series of attacks in which they sheared the beards of male Amish and the hair of one female in eastern Ohio in late 2011.)”, not all hold to exactly the same beliefs and practices when it comes to the use of technology outside of their homes and farms and things like photography:

“Some Amish completely refuse to allow themselves to be photographed. Posed photos in particularly may be seen as a show of pride. On the other hand, some Amish make a distinction between having one’s photo taken in a natural setting, vs. posing for a photo. Some have no problem with allowing themselves to be filmed or photographed, as long as it is obvious that they are not posing.” But FWIW, the Amish in general don’t like being photographed by tourists, especially without their permission, and I can’t say that I blame them.

http://amishamerica.com/what-do-amish-think-about-photography/

On guns - yes the Amish own guns and some even collect them and they use guns for eradicating pests and for hunting – many Amish are avid hunters but of course they use the meat for food but some may even go on hunting trips out West to hunt “big game”, although if I understand correctly, hunting purely for sport or for trophies or buying very expensive hunting gear, would be typically frowned upon by most Amish church leaders.

http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-use-guns/

But it is a misnomer that the Amish are against having any fun. I once saw several young Amish men at a put-put golf course in NE Maryland not far from the MD/ Lancaster PA border. But what was really interesting was that they got out of a big pickup truck and others out of a van with the logo of a commercial landscaping company on the side and that the truck and van was driven by and several of their “co-workers” were all black guys. But they all had great fun playing putt putt golf together.

And my brother told me that he saw several Amish families at the Stone Harbor, NJ beach on a mid-week day after Labor Day, doing all the things that any other family would do at the beach – picnicking, making sand castles, collecting sea shells, even playing ball toss and playing Frisbee and frolicking in the surf, although the Amish women and older girls didn’t venture in much past their ankles due to their long skirts and their sense of modesty and their clothing.

My brother asked one of the life guards about them he told my brother that there were some Amish farms now in Cape May County but also that some travelled from PA and some as far away as Ohio for the day, many hiring private vans and drivers to transport them. He told my brother that they liked coming there after Labor Day as it was a quiet beach town to begin with, without all the trappings of a boardwalk, etc, and much more quiet, less crowded at that time of year and on a week day and so they were less likely to be gawked at, photographed or harassed.

And yes, while they don’t own or drive motorized vehicles themselves and mostly use horse buggies to get around locally and use horse drawn plows for farming, many Amish will take busses, trains, even airplanes or use and pay for private transportation services. Their children will also ride in school busses to get to either a public school, but more typically to an Amish or Mennonite run parochial school.

But back in the early 70’s I attended a public elementary school in Elizabethtown, PA and there were several Old Order Mennonite kids and a few Amish kids in my 3rd grade class and aside from their dress, they were pretty much like all the rest of us, even during recess where the Amish kids would play baseball, kickball, basketball, hopscotch, play on the playground equipment, etc. just like the rest of us. I even became good friends with one Amish girl, we became good friends because we shared the same German first name.

And

“The Amish belief in nonresistance mean Amish will not serve in the military, law enforcement, or in any other position that requires them to use firearms against other people.”

I’m not sure what that means for the Amish as far as “self defense” as in protecting the life of a family member. I do know that the Amish have been increasingly subject to being robbed and assaulted or cruelly pranked due to criminals and pranksters thinking that their non-resistance makes them easy targets and that they will not report crimes against them to the police, and that many Amish businesses deal mostly in cash.

I also recall, I think it was last year that at an Amish roadside farm stand in NY, that two young Amish girls tending the stand were abducted, kidnapped and then sexually assaulted. Perhaps the Amish recognize that the “vermin”, despite their mostly rural existence may now also extend to “human vermin” and want to or may now feel the need to defend themselves or their families. While they reject many of the trappings of the modern world in the homes and their family lives, the “real world” sadly now encroaches on them.

But I also recall the Nickel Mines School ~~shooting~~ murders, the executions of 5 little innocent Amish girls by a depraved and very angry and bitter person who for no good reason took his anger and grief over the death of his youngest daughter at birth, his anger at God, that he took out for reasons beyond comprehension on these Amish girls, and the wounding of 5 other girls, one of them very severely injured, Rosanna who still suffers from her injuries, is suffering from brain damage to this day.

But what I remember most is how the Amish community came to the home of the wife of the murderer on the very evening of the murders and prayed with her and loved her, offered to her their condolences for the loss of her husband and their forgiveness to her and to him, not blaming her at all for her husband’s actions and even their forgiveness and prayers to the murderer and how they did the same with the killer’s mother and how many Amish - how nearly half of the people who attended the killer’s funeral were Amish, even among them, the Amish parents who had lost two daughters on that terrible day. To me it says a lot about the Amish and how they live their lives and extend their beliefs in forgiveness to others even beyond their own Amish families and close knit communizes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAmeJHXcw4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEWsxONOdI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1YjxX8qwjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRcxeHKbQhA

But it does seem a might bit inconsistent with being “pacifists and conscientious objectors.”

I would not be shocked at all if this Amish man was perhaps misquoted in the press as to the gun being needed for “self-defense” purposes. Either that or the type of gun he was trying to purchase was not one typically used for hunting and he had to say that it was for “self-defense”. In any case, it shouldn’t matter for what purpose he wanted the gun; he should, just like any other US citizen, should not have to give any reason to the government for why he was wanting to purchase it or for what purpose he intended to use it for.

There are a lot of Amish out my way and I've gotten familiar with some over the years. The ban on technology as I understood it is that anything that could interfere with the Family was not to be a part in their lives. Interfere is probably not the term they use but their lives are focused on Family and the tools that the "English" have detract from Family. That is why they can ride in cars but not drive them. It's more complicated than that but the more I know about them, the more I appreciate their ways.

Well said. I live in Central PA and work in rural Lancaster County and I have great respect for the Amish.

Here is a good website that has a lot of good information and dispels a lot of myths and misconceptions about the Amish.

http://amishamerica.com/faq/

Thanks for your post. Well, one of them, anyway.

Have a pleasant day.

Sorry for the double post. I got a Malware Warning when I went to post and didn't think it went through and clicked again.

Admin Moderator - I keep getting the following message:

The site ahead contains malware

Attackers currently on www.freerepublic.com might attempt to install dangerous programs on your computer that steal or delete your information (for example, photos, passwords, messages, and credit cards). Automatically report details of possible security incidents to Google. Privacy policy

I got the same screen when I responded to you, but not when I accessed the thread directly.

In America you have to buy firearms if you want to get a photo ID?

Thank you for the insightful stories and descriptions about the Amish. Though generally familiar with them, I can't say that I've delved deeply into their beliefs or customs.

If nothing else, FreeRepublic is a great place to learn some new things.