Posted on 09/28/2015 8:15:00 PM PDT by Kartographer
Deadly floodwaters that tore through a Boy Scout troop's New Mexico campsite as they slept turned their tents into wet cages that clung to their bodies like saran wrap, newly released police reports and taped interviews show.
The group of eight California boys and their chaperones fought desperately to escape, some using their teeth to rip holes in their tents.
"You could hear people yelling, but you couldn't understand what they were saying," Michael Evans, one of the adults, told police of the chaos that June night.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
“20’ is basically beside the creek. Washes and creeks in the SW are deadly, because they are so flat and because there is no vegetation to hold rain.”
Terrain should be a major part of selecting tent sites, in such locales.
“If they had had knives, they might have hurt themselves.”
LOL. I’ve never seen a boy scout tent with fewer than four knives in it. I’ve had to clean out tents where I found ten. The first thing they buy at camp is a couple of new knives to augment the three they brought with them.
“They obviously didn’t dig the proper little drainage ditch all around the perimeter of their tent like the handbook shows.”
This was a flash flood. Drainage ditches wouldn’t have done much good. I’m surprised Philmont has a camping area that close to the creek.
Against a flash flood that turns a three-foot wide creek into a 20-foot deep/50-foot wide roaring river?
Back in the 40’s our scoutmaster trained us well. Never, ever, ever camp next to a creek. Or within 100 yards of any body of water.
Apparently his campsite was overrun in the Santa Ana floods of 1937. Fortunately for them they were in canvas lean-to’s so they were able to run to higher ground.
1. I spent several hundred nights in tents, as a Scout and later as an adult, and I don’t think even one of those nights was spent without at least one knife in my pocket while I slept. The sissies who treat pocket knives like scary weapons instead of as tools killed these kids.
2. I remember looking at a really nice spot to set up tents about five feet above a stream and being told that it was unsafe because of the possibility of flash floods. We didn’t like it, but we accepted that as part of “Be Prepared”. The next spring, we were taken down to look at that site at the end of a rare very heavy rainfall - and it was deep under water. Adult leaders should in general allow kids to make campsite decisions, but they should also override any unsafe decisions and explain why. Where were the adults?
They give them condoms now.
Eagle scout here; always kept (at least) one in my sleeping bag and one in my boots, always accessible in seconds; still do. Ditto with flashlights. Like you, I've spent hundreds of nights in tents, and agree completely. Scouts used to be pre-military training-- making boys into men and preparing them to be soldiers; that changed a while ago.
well, there are scouts and there are scouts. I am certain that the incident described die not apply to all the boys present. I’m certain there was a good bit of commotion and some of the nylon tents did stick to wet bodies.
As usual, the writer is ignorant and is hyping anything bad he can involving scouts
Good point on the flashlight. That always went in my boots when I went to sleep, so I could find it in the dark without it rolling away. The whole point was to be prepared. Even at home, I still keep a flashlight and a knife, among other things, where I can find them instantly in the dark.
To be free, people have to be able to take care of themselves. That readiness is no longer valued by half the population.
What good would a knife have done in a flash flood? These were sleeping kids not men and certainly not hardened soldiers.
Yes. Even if it was a steep slope, they'd have been overwhelmed. They may have been okay in a small storm, but this summer was bad in New Mexico for big storms. From the article: "The creek normally is 2 to 3 feet wide and less than a foot deep. That morning, at least 2 inches of rain fell in a short amount of time, and the surge of water that swept through the canyon was as high as 20 feet and as wide as a football field, authorities said."
It's hard to fathom something growing 100 times its original width and 20 times its original depth in a very short time.
It wasn't a developed site. The boys were on a cross-country 12-day hike, and they hit a stopping point. There was word in earlier reports that the guide from Philmont said that the place would be okay for overnight, but I don't know if that's fact, or if it was speculation.
To cut through the tent; they got trapped in the canvas tents and couldn’t escape, they should have cut out. I can’t speak for kids today, but I was more a man at thirteen than most adults in ther 20s I meet now. The scouts was created pre-military training, my troop carried on that proud tradition, as did a few others with military men as leaders. 90% of my troop went into the Army, Marines, or CIA as soon as we turned 17. Most of us could have probably handled Army basic training at 13-14, so I think you underestimate what boys are capable of with the right training, discipline and leadership.
I backpacked Philmont with my son’s Boy Scout troop back in 1998. We camped at pre-designated sites each night that had cables strung between two trees to hang bear bags. We both had knives within easy reach in our tent to cut our way out if needed. I distinctly remember camping at a site where the scouts took part in black powder shooting. It was in a canyon along a stream. We were caught up in a severe thunderstorm that night with rain, sleet and high winds. We were surrounded by tall trees. That was a long, sleepless night.
Rule #9
(Gibbs)
............
I don’t remember ever using a tent when I was in the Boy Scouts.
We built a lean-to or just hung a tarp if rain threatened.
Or just huddled under a poncho if we weren’t actually encamped.
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