Thirty Government Officials In North Carolina Are Now All Refusing To Conduct Homosexual Marriages

Yes, people like Kim Davis. But she is following her conscience as it was formed. And there was a time where I would have ignored that teaching because almost everybody else does it (since about the 20's or 30's) except Catholics. And I didn't know about Catholic teaching then.

So what would I do now? I would have to follow my conscience and do what I said. Not issue marriage licenses and several other things.

Kim was no longer issuing any marriage licenses because she was smart enough to know they would get her on discrimination.

Unfortunately though, I would’ve rather seen the issue challenged on the basis of the so-called discrimination. If we can’t defeat the “logic” that says you can’t distinguish between a man and woman ever, then the underpinnings of the Supreme Court’s decision remain in place.

It looks like playing it “smart” didn’t stop the court from dropping the anvil on her. If she was going to get hammered either way, she may as well have attacked the real problem with the ruling. Our end goal is not to stop the government from issuing all marriage licenses. And in a way, this tactic weakens her religious objection, since her religion would not prevent her from issuing them to opposite-sex couples. Only denying same-sex couples would allow the issue of religious objection to be tested head-on.

I have followed this situation but it has become vastly more complicated than I can just plunk out an answer to. If I read you right, you would have her refusing same sex only, then having her 1st Amendment rights tested in the courts?

I don't see how she can refuse to perform the required duties in a government job. Hobby Lobby and Chick a fils are privately owned businesses. Now I would think they could run them as they see fit but we know that isn't altogether true. They have to conform to several laws concerning discrimination, payroll taxes, etc., etc.

But listening to the talk shows into the evening (interrupted by football), someone was saying that one or several judges should have recused themselves because they had performed gay marriages.

That was probably the Supreme Court judges, 2 I believe. I agree; she/they should have recused themselves but we know that the SC is activist now so that dog wouldn't hunt.

But there might have been something about the judge who put her in jail.

They were going to get her any way they could. As I said elsewhere, those couples could have easily gotten a license in the next county over. But they aren't about that or accommodation. They are about vengeance, and they got it with Kim in spades.

She sounds pretty determined. I looked up Revelation 2:10 which would seem to apply to our times and is strengthening.

I just don’t think it’s a great “victory” for these people if they win the right just to stop issuing marriage licenses at all. A victory would be getting to continue to issue them as they always did while refusing them to same-sex couples. If the religious objection argument was accepted by the courts, then that should be the outcome.

I see your point. The nearest analogy I can think of is when Walgreen's and other pharmacies were going to issue RU-486 or morning after and even birth control pills. Some Catholic pharmacists wouldn't fill them. At least one was fired. Then it all dropped off the radar so I don't know how it turned out.

But that was a private business. I think you are right that a federal or state or county/other government employee should be granted their first amendment rights but only to the extent that others' rights aren't impinged. Like it or not, gay marriage is the law of the land. It's only regular Christians that are being tested so far as I know though. Muslims wouldn't be cooperative in the same situation; I don't know what would happen.

I knew Kim was going to go to prison over it or fined but then it would be back to square one. I guess I don't like it being looked at as "changing her conscience". That's what they really want. And to see her suffer.

The only example I started to write then thought better of it earlier was Jews are exempt from working on the Sabbath/Saturday where I worked. Lieberman worked but walked to work. I can't think of any other first amendment examples except I'm sure Catholics were always able to have leave to attend required masses. Some holy days are week days work days

There's going to be no victory for Christians in this matter, not that I can foresee. Public opinion is running against it, too, maybe 60% pro. And it's gotten so bad Christians won't speak out on unfriendly boards that I have noticed. FR is different.

“If you really want to adhere to God’s word straight from Jesus’ mouth, you wouldn’t issue licenses nor marry anyone who was divorced””

“Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery. (Luke 16:18 NKJV)

Christ recognized that divorced men and women who remarried were married.

The liberal argument about divorced people not being allowed to be married is nonsense and not analogous.

She let is slip how fond she is of Islam too

Do you have a link on any of this please? Right now I support Trump, but I'm wondering to what extent Fiorina is involved in Islam.

I assume the homofascists are planning on pulling an Indiana there.

The Gaystapo are working on that right now, I assume.

:)

Can’t they get remarried if the spouse cheats?

What if the spouse sleeps with someone else? Can you get divorced then?

Shoot. Wish I’d read this post, before I posted about whether it was okay to divorce a spouse who cheats.

Christianity allows divorce.

How long before Congress grows a pair and starts impeaching rouge federal judges?

She did illegal business with Iran as a CEO. Carly Fiorina: Islamic Civilization was “Greatest in the World” Lots of people are losing their minds over Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina, but apart from her terrible record at Hewlett Packard, the 60-year-old seems to believe the Islamic Ottoman Empire civilization was the greatest in the world. In a speech that was given a mere two weeks after Islamic jihadists attacked America, the former HP chief executive officer gave a speech on technology, business and our way of life. She concluded her speech with the following: There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world. It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins. One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization's commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between. And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things. When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others. While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent. Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Arab mathematicians. Sufi poet-philosophers like Rumi challenged our notions of self and truth. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership. Though Fiorina did acknowledge Christianity and Judaism in culture, she did not call them "a civilization that was the greatest in the world." She failed to recognize the long track record of Islam and its culture in the Middle East. In fact, understanding that we are a Christian nation, one would think that she would reference the rich heritage of Europe or even our early founding, but instead, two weeks after Islamists attacked America, she decided to praise the culture that spawned them. Not only that, but she apparently has bought into the lie that it was Islam was very important with regards to mathematics. Nothing could be further from the truth. Enza Ferreri points out: The word "algebra" stems from the Arabic word "al-jabr", from the name of the treatise Book on Addition and Subtraction after the Method of the Indians written by the 9th-century Persian mathematician Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi, who translated, formalized and commented on ancient Indian and Greek works. It is even doubtful whether al-Khwarizmi was really a Muslim. The Wikipedia entry on him says: Regarding al-Khwārizmī's religion, Toomer writes: Another epithet given to him by al-Ṭabarī, "al-Majūsī," would seem to indicate that he was an adherent of the old Zoroastrian religion. This would still have been possible at that time for a man of Iranian origin, but the pious preface to al-Khwārizmī's Algebra shows that he was an orthodox Muslim, so al-Ṭabarī's epithet could mean no more than that his forebears, and perhaps he in his youth, had been Zoroastrians. In all likelihood he was a Zoroastrian who was forced to convert (or die) by Muslim rulers because Persia had been conquered by the Islamic armies, and that was what Muslims did (and still do wherever they can). That could easily explain the "pious preface to al-Khwarizmi's Algebra". Ferreri goes on to list the fact that algebra has its roots in ancient Babylon and later developed in Egypt and Greece. Advances were even made among the Chinese and Indians in algebra. Even Bertrand Russell wrote in The History of Western Philosophy: Arabic philosophy is not important as original thought. Men like Avicenna and Averroes are essentially commentators. Speaking generally, the views of the more scientific philosophers come from Aristotle and the Neoplatonists in logic and metaphysics, from Galen in medicine, from Greek and Indian sources in mathematics and astronomy, and among mystics religious philosophy has also an admixture of old Persian beliefs. Writers in Arabic showed some originality in mathematics and in chemistry — in the latter case, as an incidental result of alchemical researches. Mohammedan civilization in its great days was admirable in the arts and in many technical ways, but it showed no capacity for independent speculation in theoretical matters. Its importance, which must not be underrated, is as a transmitter. Between ancient and modern European civilization, the dark ages intervened. The Mohammedans and the Byzantines, while lacking the intellectual energy required for innovation, preserved the apparatus of civilization — education, books, and learned leisure. Both stimulated the West when it emerged from barbarism — the Mohammedans chiefly in the thirteenth century, the Byzantines chiefly in the fifteenth. In each case the stimulus produced new thought better than any produced by the transmitters — in the one case scholasticism, in the other the Renaissance (which however had other causes also). So, Fiorina has promoted lies from an anti-Christ religion and culture. Is this really the kind of person conservatives, let alone Christians, should be getting behind? If she does this with Islam and history, what do you think her mindset would be when it comes to the Constitution? UPDATE: In case you think she has changed since her speech, check out the politically correct way she addressed Pamela Geller's Muhammad Exhibit. Read more at http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/06/carly-fiorina-islamic-civilization-was-greatest-in-the-world/#B5igfpbPVZJksOU8.99

TRY AGAIN

She did illegal business with Iran as a CEO.

Carly Fiorina: Islamic Civilization was “Greatest in the World”

Lots of people are losing their minds over Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina, but apart from her terrible record at Hewlett Packard, the 60-year-old seems to believe the Islamic Ottoman Empire civilization was the greatest in the world.

In a speech that was given a mere two weeks after Islamic jihadists attacked America, the former HP chief executive officer gave a speech on technology, business and our way of life. She concluded her speech with the following:

There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world.

It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins.

One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization's commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.

And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration.

Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.

When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others.

While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.

Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Arab mathematicians. Sufi poet-philosophers like Rumi challenged our notions of self and truth. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership.

Though Fiorina did acknowledge Christianity and Judaism in culture, she did not call them "a civilization that was the greatest in the world." She failed to recognize the long track record of Islam and its culture in the Middle East. In fact, understanding that we are a Christian nation, one would think that she would reference the rich heritage of Europe or even our early founding, but instead, two weeks after Islamists attacked America, she decided to praise the culture that spawned them.

Not only that, but she apparently has bought into the lie that it was Islam was very important with regards to mathematics. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Enza Ferreri points out:

The word "algebra" stems from the Arabic word "al-jabr", from the name of the treatise Book on Addition and Subtraction after the Method of the Indians written by the 9th-century Persian mathematician Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi, who translated, formalized and commented on ancient Indian and Greek works.

It is even doubtful whether al-Khwarizmi was really a Muslim. The Wikipedia entry on him says:

Regarding al-Khwārizmī's religion, Toomer writes:

Another epithet given to him by al-Ṭabarī, "al-Majūsī," would seem to indicate that he was an adherent of the old Zoroastrian religion. This would still have been possible at that time for a man of Iranian origin, but the pious preface to al-Khwārizmī's Algebra shows that he was an orthodox Muslim, so al-Ṭabarī's epithet could mean no more than that his forebears, and perhaps he in his youth, had been Zoroastrians.

In all likelihood he was a Zoroastrian who was forced to convert (or die) by Muslim rulers because Persia had been conquered by the Islamic armies, and that was what Muslims did (and still do wherever they can). That could easily explain the "pious preface to al-Khwarizmi's Algebra".

Ferreri goes on to list the fact that algebra has its roots in ancient Babylon and later developed in Egypt and Greece. Advances were even made among the Chinese and Indians in algebra.

Even Bertrand Russell wrote in The History of Western Philosophy:

Arabic philosophy is not important as original thought. Men like Avicenna and Averroes are essentially commentators. Speaking generally, the views of the more scientific philosophers come from Aristotle and the Neoplatonists in logic and metaphysics, from Galen in medicine, from Greek and Indian sources in mathematics and astronomy, and among mystics religious philosophy has also an admixture of old Persian beliefs. Writers in Arabic showed some originality in mathematics and in chemistry — in the latter case, as an incidental result of alchemical researches.

Mohammedan civilization in its great days was admirable in the arts and in many technical ways, but it showed no capacity for independent speculation in theoretical matters. Its importance, which must not be underrated, is as a transmitter. Between ancient and modern European civilization, the dark ages intervened. The Mohammedans and the Byzantines, while lacking the intellectual energy required for innovation, preserved the apparatus of civilization — education, books, and learned leisure. Both stimulated the West when it emerged from barbarism — the Mohammedans chiefly in the thirteenth century, the Byzantines chiefly in the fifteenth. In each case the stimulus produced new thought better than any produced by the transmitters — in the one case scholasticism, in the other the Renaissance (which however had other causes also).

So, Fiorina has promoted lies from an anti-Christ religion and culture. Is this really the kind of person conservatives, let alone Christians, should be getting behind? If she does this with Islam and history, what do you think her mindset would be when it comes to the Constitution?

UPDATE: In case you think she has changed since her speech, check out the politically correct way she addressed Pamela Geller's Muhammad Exhibit.

Read more at http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/06/carly-fiorina-islamic-civilization-was-greatest-in-the-world/#B5igfpbPVZJksOU8.99

Not according to the New Testament.

There is only one Biblical (New Testament) ground for divorce, and that is if the initial attempted marriage was unlawful. The word for "unlawful intercourse" in Greek is "porneia".

Matthew 5:32
But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, unless the marriage is unlawful (porneia), causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 19:9
I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, unless the marriage is unlawful (porneia), and marries another commits adultery.

Mark 10:11-12
He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

Luke 16:18
“Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

That was Jesus. So we're stuck with it.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/06/carly-fiorina-islamic-civilization-was-greatest-in-the-world/

Thanks for finding and posting this. bookmarked