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The Oldest Fallacy in Economics: Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders have fallen for it
Foundation for Economic Education ^ | 08/25/2015 | DONALD J. BOUDREAUX

Posted on 08/26/2015 5:29:57 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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To: Toddsterpatriot
Got it.

You are willing to account for offsetting ramifications for "cheapifying" labor in the US, but won't consider the offsetting ramifications of US regulations and domestic government interference that "cheapifies" manufactured goods by offshoring production.

41 posted on 08/26/2015 8:33:36 AM PDT by Sgt_Schultze (If a border fence isn't effective, why is there a border fence around the White House?)
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To: Sgt_Schultze
I absolutely want to reduce idiotic regulations and domestic taxes that make our goods expensive for domestic as well as foreign markets.

All while wanting to build a wall and deport the illegals.

42 posted on 08/26/2015 8:36:11 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot ("Telling the government to lower trade barriers to zero...is government interference" central_va)
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To: VanShuyten
While wealth internationally might grow faster with free trade..

Let the rest of the world worry about their own economies. Do what is best for ours, first, last and always.

43 posted on 08/26/2015 8:43:01 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Sgt_Schultze
Our founders gave us the tariff as a government financing system and it served as notice for prospective trading partners as the buy-in to our marketplace.

There are no links or quotes from say, Washington's inaugural address or maybe a state of the union saying this was official admin policy. Pure fantasy. What really happened was his vice president was sent to Holland to open Ameica's first embassy to negotiate open trade and on top of that back then we were also opening up trade deals w/ China and Russia.

Let's give this goofy protectionist founding myth a rest.

44 posted on 08/26/2015 8:44:09 AM PDT by expat_panama
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To: 9YearLurker
"Trump has said repeatedly now that he’s a free trader—but that a country just needs to be smart about it."

Which sounds closer to Fair Trade than Free, which I prefer, so he can call it whatever he likes.

45 posted on 08/26/2015 8:49:22 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: Toddsterpatriot
We both agree then. But when US environmental regulations, and employee safety regulations, and unemployment and training costs, and child labor laws, and more, are not part of the cost structure of foreign manufactured goods, then we start out in a tremendous hole when manufacturing similar goods domestically. And I'm not advocating the elimination of all of these environmental and safety laws - we're a rich country and as countries get richer, their citizens start to appreciate clean air and water and such things.

But the labor/environmental arbitrage that goes on now - essentially permitting US corporations to avoid complying with US regulations by contracting with polluters and sweat-shops - it too has to be accounted for in the lost opportunity for American workers. Now too, Silicon Valley is importing bright workers, whose cheap local education hasn't saddled them with hundreds of thousand of dollars in school debt. These foreign workers come from economies with a lower per capita living costs so they are willing - and able - to work for substantially less than most US graduates.

46 posted on 08/26/2015 8:53:20 AM PDT by Sgt_Schultze (If a border fence isn't effective, why is there a border fence around the White House?)
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To: SeekAndFind

The best economic solution is not which country obtains the most money [perhaps one person, or a few], it is which country’s population is better off. In a voting democracy pure economics does not provide the best answer. Most people have to be better off or off with their heads in the next election. Hence the growth of socialism.


47 posted on 08/26/2015 9:01:00 AM PDT by ex-snook (To conquer use Jesus, not bombs.)
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To: Sgt_Schultze

California here and Germany abroad are experiments serving as examples.


48 posted on 08/26/2015 9:05:01 AM PDT by Ozark Tom
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To: moehoward

How about Fair Free Trade?


49 posted on 08/26/2015 9:18:10 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: semimojo

Jobs here pay wages that keep currency circulating locally. No jobs equals no wages, thus no money to purchase goods unless taken from someone (taxes) for distribution.

Money leaving the country for trade goods removes currency locally. To create currency the fed must create debt in proportion. Money loaned to purchase goods increases debt; as opposed to money invested into manufacturing, which as an investment will create wealth.


50 posted on 08/26/2015 9:23:34 AM PDT by Ozark Tom
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To: CIB-173RDABN

Actually a higher percentage of our GDP is manufacturing now than just prior to WWII. Lots of stuff gets made here.


51 posted on 08/26/2015 9:27:30 AM PDT by discostu (It always comes down to cortexiphan)
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To: SeekAndFind
There is only three ways for a nation to create wealth, manufacture it, grow it or mine it.

Importing, retailing and marketing are value added processes and do not create wealth. A service economy does not create wealth.

52 posted on 08/26/2015 9:28:59 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: moehoward
Which sounds closer to Fair Trade than Free, which I prefer, so he can call it whatever he likes.

The only form of fair trade is free (or freer) trade. Fair trade requires a more influential government and a belief that it can create an even playing field. The even field doesn't exist in the real world.. All government can do is make trade harder and more expensive. Anyone truly wanting fair trade supports free (or freer) trade.

53 posted on 08/26/2015 9:29:26 AM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: SeekAndFind
If the goods and services available to the American people are greater as a result of international trade, then Americans are wealthier, not poorer, regardless of whether there is a “deficit” or a “surplus” in the international balance of trade.

This is laughable, if this were true then every South American country would be an economic power.

54 posted on 08/26/2015 9:36:28 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: freedomfiter2

Re: Don’t give facts to free traitors, it messes up their cute little models.

and don’t remind them that Adams favored tariffs under certain circumstances, and Ricardo admitted that ‘comparative advantage’ only works if capital and labor don’t cross borders (Ricardo assumed patriotism would prevent this from happening).


55 posted on 08/26/2015 9:48:46 AM PDT by khelus
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To: Mase
"The even field doesn't exist in the real world"

If it was literally "even" there wouldn't be much of an incentive to produce the goods outside the US.

56 posted on 08/26/2015 9:52:24 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: moehoward
Yeah, producing goods in a country with 1.5 billion potential customers, to be able to more effectively compete against other companies already located there, makes no economic sense whatsoever.

American companies producing their goods only in the US will always be competitive as long as we have an even playing field -- that doesn't/can't exist.

57 posted on 08/26/2015 10:18:56 AM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: khelus

And whatever you do, don’t forget that is was Republican protectionists who gave us the 16th Amendment. We should remember to thank the anti-freedom traders for giving us the federal income tax. That’s worked out so well and all......


58 posted on 08/26/2015 10:21:35 AM PDT by Mase (Save me from the people who would save me from myself!)
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To: khelus

Patriotism would keep it from happening except that the globalists aren’t loyal to the US.


59 posted on 08/26/2015 12:33:26 PM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Lex rex)
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To: SeekAndFind

Here are some real basic economics. If interest rates return to the historical norm every dime the government confiscates will go toward servicing the debt.


60 posted on 08/26/2015 12:40:36 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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