Posted on 07/22/2015 7:11:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
I do realize that everyone from Charles Krauthammer to the recently escaped Mexican drug lord, El Chapo, is piling onto Donald Trump for his straight-forward remarks. Well, being the contrarian that I am, I am going to come down on the side of Mr. Trump!
Do I like him? No. Never have. I don't like his swagger, his cockiness, his arrogance. And I certainly don't care for that mop of comb-over fake hair. But they say the difference between egotism and self-assurance is the ability to produce. By any measure, he certainly wins that contest, both at home and abroad. True, he was born with a silver spoon, but he, and he alone, turned it into gold!
The first thing he did after declaring his presidential candidacy was to observe that Mexico was not sending their "best and brightest" across our southern border. Instead, in Mr. Trump's opinion, they are sending their gang members, their druggies, their serial felons and killers. Certainly, the tragic instance in San Francisco, and others elsewhere, have borne out the truth of his statement.
But the Honorable Senator John McCain (R-AZ) picked a fight by calling him, and others like him, "crazies" for criticizing Mexican immigration. I guess when you are worth $10 BILLION of your own making, you feel free to take issue when a politician calls you crazy!
So The Donald retaliated with the statement that getting yourself captured doesn't necessarily make you a hero. "He's a war hero because he was captured? I like people who weren't captured." With that, all hell broke loose in the mainstream media, as well as the Karl Rove dominated Republican establishment -- and the gaggle of GOP presidential wannabes.
But it might behoove us at this point in time to wonder just why would getting captured make you a hero? And why would remaining in captivity make you a military expert, and thus qualified to currently fill the roles of chairman of both the Senate Committee on Armed Services and Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. And one might ask, how has his leadership in both these strategic positions of responsibility been working out for ya'?
Since Mr. Trump expressed his opinion, there is now a whole group of Vietnam veterans who have come forward with statements that highly question the Senator's preferential treatment as the son and grandson of Navy admirals, and his loyalty to his country while in captivity. Some even place him in the Jane Fonda category. Among the allegations are:
John McCain was a below average student, getting into the Naval Academy due to his father's and grandfather's influence and naval careers. Both were admirals. McCain was a boozing, smoking, womanizing party animal, graduating fifth from the bottom of his class at Annapolis.
John McCain's arms were broken not from being tortured by the North Vietnamese, as he has claimed, but when he improperly ejected from his plane over North Vietnam. According to his fellow prisoners, he was never tortured by the North Vietnamese.
John McCain's nickname among his North Vietnamese captors was "Songbird," as he was eager to tell them anything they wanted to hear to avoid torture. It is claimed that he made 32 propaganda videos for the North Vietnamese in which he blamed the United States for targeting schools, temples, orphanages, and hospitals. McCain has admitted to making one propaganda video.
And from a US Navy Aviator who served with McCain: "His "shoot down" was self-induced, as he DISOBEYED ORDERS and flew well below the 'floor,' getting himself shot down. There were several other jets on that particular mission and he was the only one shot down, because the others obeyed their orders."
But if you think these opinions of Senator McCain are somewhat negative, try this one by Theodore Shoebat, Communications Director for Rescue Christians, an organization that is on the ground in Muslim lands, rescuing Christians from persecution, and the author of two books, For God or For Tyranny and In Satan's Footsteps: The Source and Interconnections of all Evil.
"John McCain is a giant bag of scum; his mouth is a continual sewer of bile, his heart is a decayed rot of dung, his mind a river of filth, and his soul is amongst the damned. He is nothing but a murderous scumbag. His evils are so great, that the words of Trump don't even bother me. McCain is a demon incarnate. His service in Vietnam does nothing to justify the evils he has supported and pushed for."
The late Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it well: "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Mr. Trump expressed his opinion, twice, apparently based upon ample facts.
Was it the politically smart thing for him to do? Perhaps not, but isn't it refreshing, for once, to see a candidate for political office speaking his mind, instead of having his thoughts evaluated by a panel of political analysts before expressing them?
At least Trump is now branded as a no-holds-barred fighter, a type of leadership our country desperately needs at this time -- and could certainly have used in the recent Iranian nuclear negotiations. Can you imagine the outcome had he been there instead of "Swiftboat" Kerry?
The GOP needs for someone to break away from the pack of wilting violets currently running for the 2016 candidacy, and Trump may have just done it! As I write this, the liberally reluctant Washington Post poll shows Trump leading by 24%, followed by Walker at 13, Bush at 12, Huckabee at 8, Rubio at 7, etc., etc.
Fasten your seat belts folks, we ain't seen nothing yet!
Sorry, it’s the other way around. if someone makes a charge, they need the proof, at hand, when the charge is made!
Despite his political idiocy, he does not need to prove himself innocent of some character assassination any more than I need to prove that I am not the father of Raquel Welch’s and Kate Upton’s love children....
............... in my dreams..... :)
That story is bullshit. You’ve obviously never watched the flight deck video. It’s posted on Wikipedia in the Forrestal fire entry.
> “Likewise, there is NO substantiation of any misconduct by McCain.”
Sanitized version:
This topic derives from Trump’s response to McCain calling 15,000 fine Americans “crazies”. That’s misconduct right there and it’s par for the course for the scoundrel Senator from Arizona.
Trump never brought up misconduct by McCain except for his calling good Americans “crazies” and for being an open borders scumbag.
So ignore what others bring up from years and years ago that have circulated on the internet. At this point they are irrelevant because they cant be proven false nor can they be proven true.
Stay focused on what the media attacked Trump for. They attacked him for bringing up the fact that McCain is a ‘war hero’ because he was a POW which is absolutely true. Except I don’t believe McCain was a hero-anything in the military. There is not one account NOT ONE where he saved lives, where his actions led to crucial military victories. There’s nothing but exalted language in his citations that were obviously written for an Admiral’s boy.
Everyday there are people in this world that are suffering torture, abuse and crime. Should we pin Silver Stars on all of them? Well I guess if their parent is a 4-star flag ranking officer, then sure let’s pin every medal we can on them.
McCain was an problem child before his time in the HH and after his time in the HH. We know he wasn’t much of a hero in the HH and we don’t know much else while he was in the HH because he’s had all the records classified and that classification act is on the record.
And for more on McCain’s bad character, read what Mark Steyn recently has to say about him:
http://www.steynonline.com/7059/the-superbowl-of-superholes
It may be that Donald Trump is also a bad character but he’s not anywhere near the horrible character of McCain. I’ll take the species of Trump Characteritis over the McCain bad example apparatus eight days a week.
The myth and fantasy of McCain’s dream of Perseus-like heroism for his legacy has fallen apart because history won’t remember what he did. And apparently he finally woke up to that reality a few days ago:
John McCain responds to Donald Trump: ‘I’m not a hero’
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3314205/posts
I’ll take your word for it as you sound knowledgeable about it, as do some others who have replied here. Then how did it get on WIKI Answers? There are so many stories out there about McCain during the Viet Man war years that it is very difficult to separate truth from fiction. I guess I’ll just stick to disliking him from when he dumped his first wife who stuck by him through his captivity on.
Man = Nam above.
Your post is very interesting and helpful. Thank you.
> “ I guess I’ll just stick to disliking him from when he dumped his first wife who stuck by him through his captivity on.”
That’s pretty much all one needs to know to say that McCain is a very poor character.
The back story is she had quite an illness while he was gone and she had gained a little weight so she wasn’t as pretty as she had been before he left. So when he returned he dumped her and immediately found a younger, prettier and richer wife.
I hate to imagine how she must have felt after waiting for him dutifully for so many years, praying for his safety and his safe return, and then having him return home to dump her for a younger prettier version. There’s no honor, no integrity in this man. And that’s why he gets no benefit of the doubt in any scandal because he’s a known bad character.
It wasn’t so long ago that company executives and bosses judged a man by how well he took care of his family and how well he treated his wife, how well he kept his vows and how well he raised his children.
As the love of my life would say, God has a way of punishing those who intentionally hurt and harm others and are not repentant. In McCain’s case I look at his daughter and think there’s his punishment.
Bingo. His treatment of MIA families was disgusting, he was the leader of the band that normalized trade with the NV.
“As the love of my life would say, God has a way of punishing those who intentionally hurt and harm others and are not repentant. In McCain’s case I look at his daughter and think there’s his punishment.”
LOL! Ain’t that the truth. And horror upon horrors, Fox Cable TV has hired her as a Contributor. Thank goodness for mute buttons. Wish there was one that would darken the screen at the same time until she’s off the screen.
Did John McCain lay off veterans and the families of MIAs in Vietnam?
We’ve laid off him for 40 freakin years, which is twice the length of time he laid off veterans and the families of MIAs.
Do you know how many MIA families John refused to turn over information to? Does it bother you that many of those MIAs were tortured more than he was, and he personally pushed to get the U. S. to abandon them all?
I waited until two days ago, because I detest having to address something like this about a man. I’m not going to remain silent on it any longer.
He milks that service like a bulging cow.
He’s been a sub-human his entire life.
Research him. He’s one of the most disgusting men I’ve every seen.
http://www.hotr.us/mccain/mccainagain.html
Yes, I believe so.
Not his, ours.
I don’t know if that is true or not, but it fits his character profile so tightly, that there is the ring of truth to it.
I’ve long wondered about this, but I’ve never been able to nail it down.
If true, this guy ranks up there as one of the worst U. S. Citizens in our nation’s history.
Born with everything going for him a man could want, THIS (his on the record life) is what he did with it.
I don't like McCain but a lot of people are going way overboard on attacking his service. Many persons during Nam with any connections at all used them to stay stateside or if deployed they were given non combat safe jobs out of harms way.
McCain chose to volunteer to be a pilot. It is one of the most dangerous jobs in the Navy. Others would be Patrol Boat Gun Crew, & on a carrier a Liquid Oxygen Plant Operator, Flight Deck Crew, and the guys down in what is called The Hole which on the one I was on was the Boiler Rooms and Machinery rooms.
His pilot skills as a LTCDR would have had to have been at least on par with pilots in his squadron. If he didn't have the skills he would have crashed on deck of the carrier and even some of the best still do. Some live some don't.
To his credit McCain could have taken an easier way up the officers career ladder by being a surface ship Deck Officer in a field of something like Engineering or Communications etc. In doing so he would have likely made the same promotions and as a LTCDR been eligible to be Captain of a ship aka the ships commanding officer.
A ships Captain doesn't mean they are an actual Captain in rank rather it is to identify them as in charge of the ship. McCain could have been in a lot safer job and still made his rank. The Navy needs surface officers also.
There is one other thing. Hanoi Hilton was no GITMO. The NVA was ruthless as savage sadist in their torturing methods. McCain they would have believed had special information by talking to his dad and torture would be how they would obtain it that and drugs, sleep deprivation, etc. The higher the rank the more brutal they were because they wanted Intel. An Admirals son especially one in charge of the Pacific Fleet put his life in grave danger.
Also one a person is awarded citations it usually is a brief description. Several reasons for that. The actual event could be classified topping the list. The information to recommend someone for award is where the story is at and it is often not public.
I'll give you an example. A senior enlisted or an officer can see someone do something that was above and beyond the call of duty and recommend then for anything from a Command Level Letter Of Commendation to a service level award. A Command issues Letter of Commendation by the Captain will be the same length in text more or less as a much higher service level award. Also the person being recommended may possibly have absolutely no knowledge of it.
I had that happen. My chief came up to me and we were fixing to have a formal formation of the flight deck with the Captain inspecting and talking to us. I was supposed to be on watch in a machinery room instead or so I was hoping LOL. My Chief said get you blues on and make sure your squared away you gotta go to formation. I thought well somebody changed the watch list to get out of inspection.
I was in formation and they began calling out shipmates names. Most of them I knew some I didn't. That meant too come forward and stand before the Captain. They called mine and I thought great what's wrong. My section leader in Fire Department put me in for a Command Level Letter of Commendation from the Captain. I didn't ask for it or expect it. I didn't even know it had been put in. But it had to do with a fire we had in the shipyards. The description of why I got it was brief and didn't even state the actual fire. That event at the time was classified and being investigated. That is how it usually works.
McCain as some might think didn't just say Dad I want a medal. LOL
John was a screw up in flight training.
He flew at least one aircraft into the drink during that period. He lost two aircraft around this time.
He was certified with only 2 of 6 required deck landings.
It is said that he did not fly at the right altitude when he was shot down.
It is said he broke both arms because he didn’t adhere to proper bail-out procedures.
The guy was a total screw up.
He takes credit for not leaving the POW camp early, because he didn’t want to abandon the others. That was a standing order from Stockdale, that they would only leave together.
Watching him in action against veterans groups and the MIA families, convinces me this man is not worthy honoring.
Awarded for actions during the Vietnam War
The President of the United States of America takes pleasure in presenting the Distinguished Flying Cross to Commander [then Lieutenant Commander] John Sidney McCain, III (NSN: 0-624787), United States Navy, for heroism while participating in aerial flight on 26 October 1967 in North Vietnam. While attacking the thermal power plant at Hanoi, Commander McCain, despite extremely heavy and accurate anti-aircraft fire and more than fifteen surface-to-air missiles in the air, pursued the attack until his aircraft was hit by enemy anti-aircraft fire. Although his aircraft was severely damaged, he continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs on the target. When the aircraft would not recover from the dive, Commander McCain was forced to eject over the target. By his exceptional courage, superb airmanship, and total devotion to duty, Commander McCain reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.
Action Date: October 26, 1967
Service: Navy
Rank: Commander
Source http://valor.militarytimes.com/recipient.php?recipientid=23680
See Post #26 by NKV_Vet. There is plenty of similar stuff out there about McCain’s years in captivity. I am surprised that more people have not checked out some of it themselves.
Some links:
http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=71210
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-mccains-war-record-fair-game/
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-91618
http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2013/05/29/john-mccain-war-hero-or-something-less/
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.