Okay, I must have missed something. What was illegal — i.e., unconstitutional — in 1861 and “is still”?
I know where you are trying to go with this: Secession.
Where, in the U.S. Constitution in effect in 1861, was secession declared unconstitutional? The simple fact is, it wasn’t.
Now, if you’ve read my FR profile you will see that I saw the secessions of 1860-1861 to be a tragedy, and that I wish it had never got to that point (though I understand why the Southern states that seceded, had, in fact, seceded).
If you are one of those “My country, right or wrong” folks, then any further discussion is pretty meaningless. Because such a sentiment implies that no matter what your country does, no matter what or whom it oppresses and violates, it is okay with you.
I love my country’s TRADITIONS, and its FOUNDING PRINCIPLES. But I despise my country’s betrayal of those virtues.
Then yet again, you've not really read my posts, and do not know your history.
In fact, our Founders contemplated "disunion" in 1787 and beyond, and they are consistent in their responses to it: disunion was acceptable when it came through 1) mutual consent, or 2) from some abuse of usurpation of federal powers.
But neither condition existed in 1860 when Deep South Fire Eaters first began declaring their secession -- so those declarations were unconstitutional.
But those declarations of secession did not cause Civil War.
Neither did their formation of a new Confederate government in early 1861.
Neither did their dozens of provocations of war in seizing Federal forts, ships, arsenals and mints, among others.
Civil War did not come because the Deep South declared secession and formed a new Confederacy.
Civil War did finally come when the Confederacy provoked, started (at Fort Sumter) and formally declared war on the United States, May 6, 1861, simultaneously sending military aid to pro-Confederates in Union states.
All of that happened before a single Confederate soldier was killed in battle with any Union force, and before any Union army invaded a single Confederate state.
Yes, I know, these are facts which pro-Confederates are desperate to ignore or obfuscate, since you people want a debate over the legality of secession, in 1860.
But I'm saying that debate is irrelevant, doesn't matter, since secession is not what caused Civil War.
The Confederacy started and lost their Civil War, and that's all there is to it, FRiend.
ought-six: "If you are one of those 'My country, right or wrong; folks, then any further discussion is pretty meaningless.
Because such a sentiment implies that no matter what your country does, no matter what or whom it oppresses and violates, it is okay with you."
Now you're just being ridiculous.
The truth of this matter is that you, my FRiend are the 'My country, right or wrong' folk because you stand by and defend your country, through thick or thin, regardless of facts, right or wrong, you worship at their graves.
But like most-all the pro-Confederates who post on these threads, your country is not the USA, it's the CSA, and on these threads at least, there's nothing y'all won't say to defend them, let the facts be d*mned.