Posted on 05/19/2015 3:27:56 PM PDT by Swordmaker
Apple has stated categorically they are not spying on their customers. . . and the data stored with them is encrypted by the users to 256 bit AES encryption before Apple ever gets it. If you don't understand what that means, learn. Just understand that if you use a 16 character password, it will be entangled with your device's 128 character Universal Unique ID to make the 140 character key for the encryption, which would require 4.92 X 1035 YEARS, to try all possible combinations of keys to decrypt your data assuming a supercomputer capable of trying 100,000 keys per second on your data in an attempt to find one that works. That's 49.2 Undecillion years.
Since the theoretical half-life of protons is considerably less than that, the Universe would have long since devolved to primordial soup before they got more than half way done, and I think the importance of your data would be pretty much moot by then and you wouldn't care any more anyway.
Did I mention that Apple doesn't have your key? How good are you at withstanding waterboarding?
Well said.
And, hey, the government can always seize such property with a duly authorized warrant. That fact that it's as useful to them as tits on a bull is just too bad. Cry me a river.
And, as I mentioned, it would seem to me that forcing someone to reveal their password could raise Fifth Amendment issues.
Three hots and a cot. . . and free health care? What's not to like?
Apple has stated categorically they are not spying on their customers. . . and that’s good enough for true believers.
I don’t worship the Apple gods so I can care less what happens to them.
So you’re telling me that Apple doesn’t have its customers’ keys or doesn’t know how to unlock the encryption? I call pure horse feces.
They have the technology to give the feds what they want.
Are you familiar with Sarbanes-Oxley Law. . . if the officers of the company make a statement like that and it turns out to be false, they can be fined up to $40 million personally. Tim Cook put that in writing and it is part of their Financial Statement. Google on the other hand includes in their business model that information collected on and about the people who use their services, devices, and searches, will be sold to third parties. YOU are their product, not their customer. For Apple, their products are their computers and their software and services, not you or your data. Apple says that any data they may have on you will not be transferred to any third party without your express permission. Combined with the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley law, that's pretty strong proof they mean what they say.
It is one of the reasons that Apple has the highest customer satisfaction in the world. It has nothing to do with "true believer" at all. It has to do with verifiable facts.
The criminals in charge of our government really need to learn the difference between the word "need" and "desire". The two words are no synonyms..
As far as I'm concerned they can just bugger off and spend some time actually reading the constitution for a change. They can wave around all the boogiemen they want. I am no longer listening to their crap and lies.
Yes, it does raise Fifth Amendment issues.
And in a way I had not thought of apparently:
http://illinoisjltp.com/timelytech/is-the-battle-over-for-smart-phones-search-warrants-should-not-overcome-biometric-protections/
(An essay on fingerprint ID phones)
“If fingerprint locks are comparable to key locks, then the [Fifth Amendment] privilege does not insulate the owner of the iPhone from being compelled to provide access to it. But if they are more like the combination locks, then the privilege applies. “
I do not understand why so many turn a blind eye towards microsoft and its evil.
Personally, I'd like to see microsoft join us in helping to secure our computers against illegitimate intrusions by criminals or their more professional government counterparts.
No one has the technology to unlock to give the feds what they want.
And there is no horse feces.
As much as you wish it were so, Apple does not have its customers keys, and no one knows how to unlock 256 bit AES encryption without a key. If you forget your passcode. YOU ARE OUT OF LUCK.
Want your encryption stronger that what a 16 character password gives you? Use a longer and more complex passcode.
Apple allows you to use all 223 characters you can input from the keyboard and the passcode can be 256 characters in length if you want. It will be then entangled with the 128 characters of the device's UUID. That makes 256+128 = 384256 possible keys to the encryption of your data.
Of course, no one wants to remember a 256 character pass code, but you could use one if you wanted to. . .
If you did, that 49.2 Undecillion years goes up by a HUGE number that is mind numbing. . . as if 49.2 undecillion years weren't already mind numbing. . . but there is no other way to break that kind of encryption except brute force trial and error.
That number is far larger than the number of atoms estimated to exist in the Universe, so I am not too worried that my data will be decrypted anytime soon. Of course, they could get lucky and hit my key in the first year or two, but that kind of luck is what it takes to hit the Lottery 1000 times in a row. . . without cheating.
This is math. . . and there is no getting around it.
“pretty strong proof “
No, a reasonable person would call that “pretty strong evidence”.
And would be struck that it doesn’t deny the facilitation of data collection by third parties- or the use of third parties’ databases by Apple.
Notoriously, the use of cookies has to be facilitated to use the internet. Identifying data is necessary for connecting calls.
What else goes on? How far does it go?
We don’t know.
Geez, EEE, seriously, I'm disappointed. I really thought you were smarter than this, and you've got a lot of seniority here.
So please pardon me, but I'm gonna be blunt. Do you realize that you're making some really ignorant statements?
Look, FRiend, you're welcome to your opinion of Apple, I couldn't care less whether you think Mac folks are gay or not, or any of your other stuff. Doesn't matter to me what you think about that.
What -does- matter is that you're spewing lots of stuff all over this thread that's demonstrably false and misleading. If what you are saying were true, there'd be a flock of security people screaming bloody murder at Apple, just like they do at other companies who compromise their customers. There are thousands of eyeballs on this technology every day looking for flaws and lies. Apple would be exposed in minutes if they were bullshitting about this. Nobody can hide, not Apple, not anybody.
Don't you understand how private encryption keys and their passphrases work? I have to guess you don't, because you're talking out your ass, as the saying goes. You've been pouring crap on this thread since it started, and you sound like a fool. As a fellow FReeper, I suggest you learn something about the topic and pause with the nonsense until you do. Maybe read up on PGP/GnuPG -- or are you also going to claim that Phil Zimmerman has gone over to the Dark Side too?
Mind you, that's just a suggestion... if you want to continue sounding ignorant, that is your choice.
Have a nice evening. Sheesh.
I will accept evidence. . . but I do not believe that people will put their personal fortunes on the line for no advantage. Repeatedly. It is not a one-off declaration. . . and third-parties have investigated whether Apple devices are secretly transmitting data to Apple and have not found that they are. Sorry. I think they have proved they are not collecting data on their customers.
As to your claims of Apple using third parties to do it, the data still has to be collected some how. . . and there is no evidence this is being done. Sorry, now you are entering into the realm of conspiracies for no reason what ever, when Occam's Razor would have it that Apple could do it easier themselves. . . without making the claim they are not. Cookies are not collected by the website you go to, but are stored on your computer itself. You can delete them if you choose. Identifying data is, I agree, necessary for connecting calls. . . but where is that Apple? That is the carrier, not Apple.
You are right, you don't know. But Apple has stated they do not collect data beyond what is necessary to provide services to their customers and they do not transfer anything to third parties, ever.
Apple does "facilitate" the collection of data by third parties. . . but again only with permission. That is entirely different than Apple collecting data and sending or selling data to others.
Apple's new Health Kit will transmit anonymized health data for research purposes only if the user opts into its use, giving specific permission, and then it does not go to Apple but to the research organization that is using the Health Kit research apps.
Ignoring for the moment my earlier comment... I have a polite and honest question or two for you about the future.
I also live in the boonies, in Upstate NY, perhaps not as remote as Northern WI but plenty remote. I'm off-grid, have been since 1989, have my own water supply and private power generation (solar and wind), and I'm due to beef up the in-house supplies. I'm thinking about personal communications gear.
When (not if) the common communications goes down, and we have to rely on something else, what are you planning to use? Ham radio (that's my current thinking)? And here's the real question: How do you plan to encrypt your communications so that you aren't vulnerable by virtue of your communications?
” Occam’s Razor would have it that Apple could do it easier themselves.”
LOL!
...Specious is as specious does I guess:
“If they don’t have anything to hide what are they afraid of?”
We’ll see eventually.
Historically, information would travel between two parties in a sealed envelope, not subject to government inspection without a warrant. How is this any different?
Only the government would think it makes sense to consider key locks and combination locks differently. I've come to the point that I really despise their hair-splitting.
“This is math. . . and there is no getting around it.”
There are lots of ways to make that number _much_ smaller. Firstly, very few people will use all those characters, and I’m sure that the NSA has a well-developed passbook/dictionary, in many languages. _Yours_ may be that good, but for most people - probably not.
The number of people who use “password”, “password1234”, or even the genuinely creative “passworD1234” for a password is frightening.
“Historically, information would travel between two parties in a sealed envelope, not subject to government inspection without a warrant. How is this any different?”
This statement alone should end this “argument”. The bottom line, OK, but not without a warrant from a judge. It should be rare, and expensive.
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