Posted on 05/16/2015 5:12:04 AM PDT by OttawaFreeper
Lincoln and most of the people in the Union disagreed. That disagreement was pretty much what the war was about.
That is the view of the northern states as is the belief that Appomattox “proved” the South was wrong.
That is exactly correct in the same way that Andrew Jackson “proved” Cherokees were wrong to want to live east of the Mississippi; Sherman “proved” Indians were wrong to want to live anywhere; Germany “proved” Poland was wrong; and Janet Reno “proved” the children at Waco were wrong.
What Appomattox really proved was that 22 industrial states could beat 11 agrarian states by using modern, total warfare - and clever propaganda.
Not really but it did prove that insurrection is a painfully stupid idea.
It smells like your rational answer engine is running on fumes.
Sorry if it is past your ability to process.
That’s an interesting link you posted there. After that I read the story of the assassination on wikipedia. Lincoln had several dreams of being assassinated in the days leading up to the event, and spoke of those dreams. One of the people he spoke to about them said “don’t go to the theater tonight” but he already promised his wife he would go.
I bet his dreams were based on reports he was reading of plans on the part of some southern officers to continue fighting after the war ended, threats of guerilla warfare.
Assassination is the ultimate guerrilla warfare.
You have to wonder how different this country would be right now if Lincoln had survived.
“Sorry if it is past your ability to process.”
It smells like your rational answer . . . oh, forget it.
Interesting observation that may be correct. I just thought of him as a very stubborn and not very intelligent class warrior who got in way over his head.
Kind of like Jimmy Carter. ;~))
Technically, it was seized for unpaid real estate taxes. Long after Lee's death, his son sued the government and was awarded compensation for the land and buildings.
Actually, 25 states, most of which were not particularly industrial.
And WWII “proved” Germany was wrong about its right to the territory of Poland.
Closer to home, radical Republicans proved states could leave the union, something Lincoln contended could not happen.
What you ignore in your analysis is Barry Goldwater’s candidacy in 1964 was openly hostile to civil rights legislation. That’s what estranged black voters from the Republican party that election cycle, and Nixon’s Southern Strategy finished the job. The Great Society programs weren’t in place at that time, and in fact Goldwater’s trouncing is what made their passage possible, not the other way around.
Announcing that you’re now a foreign country doesn’t make it true. Try it yourself and see.
As would be any person who believes in not exceeding constitutional authority. FedZilla actually has no authority to implement these programs. Unfortunately for him, his principled opposition was portrayed by the Left-Wing media as blatant racism.
That’s what estranged black voters from the Republican party that election cycle, and Nixon’s Southern Strategy finished the job.
Black votes for Nixon more than doubled from Goldwater's election of 1964. It went from 6% to 15%.
The Great Society programs weren’t in place at that time, and in fact Goldwater’s trouncing is what made their passage possible, not the other way around.
Johnson started the year out (on January 8, 1964) talking about the War on Poverty
The actual programs didn't have to be in place for them to have their effect. The mere promise of opening the coffers and sending money to help all the poor folk is enough to motivate people to vote for it to see if it happens. Back in those days, people believed the Government when it said it was going to do something.
This is exactly what doomed Greek Democracy. In fact, this is what always dooms Democracy.
Well that depends on whether you believe in the Principles outlined in the Declaration of Independence or not.
It's funny, but the motivation of the Northern government was that "All men are created equal...", but they completely walked all over that
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "
Part.
Actually, who am I kidding? The motivation of the Northern government WAS NOT that "All men are created equal..." We know this because Lincoln said he would keep them enslaved if the Southern States would give up on Independence.
Obviously stopping independence was more important to the Union than abolishing slavery. Apparently there WAS NO MORAL motivation for the Northern side when it started. It was just all about stopping Independence for people who wanted it.
You are mischaracterizing things. Sure, Lincoln disagreed, but most of the people in the remaining Union were okay with it until the Attack on Ft. Sumter. Northern newspapers of the time were publishing editorials that said stuff like "Go in Peace our Bretheren" and such.
The Union WAS NOT opposed to Southern Secession until Lincoln stirred them up to oppose it.
Surely you're not suggesting that the was Southern motivation?
It was just all about stopping Independence for people who wanted it.
Combatting rebellion is a natural response for any country, be it the U.S. or the U.K.
The U.S. was responsible because you think the Declaration of Independence OK'd it and Lincoln somehow tricked them into starting the war. I find it very amusing that you don't think the South bears any responsibility for anything that happened to them.
It was just all about stopping Independence for people who wanted it.
It was also about starting Independence for some people who wanted it. Slaves, for instance.
Take it from a man who has shown himself to be an expert regarding painfully stupid ideas. I only see his name when he shows up in Civil War threads to wave the bloody shirt.
The Southern States had a right to leave, and the Northern states had no right to invade and oppress them. We all claim to believe in Freedom, but generally we only believe in our own. When it comes to the freedom of others, we'd rather have them under our yoke.
The Northern States successfully made slaves of the Southern ones. That is the painfully stupid idea which rockrr always defends. You see, it's okay because the whip is in his hand.
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