Don’t forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler

The Washington Post ^ | May 8, 2015 | By Ishaan Tharoor

[MinorityRepublican]

In the Western popular imagination -- particularly the American one -- World War II is a conflict we won. It was fought on the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima, through the rubble of recaptured French towns and capped by sepia-toned scenes of joy and young love in New York. It was a victory shaped by the steeliness of Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, the moral fiber of British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and the awesome power of an atomic bomb.

[TBP]

Pro-Communist propaganda from the Washington Post.

[dfwgator]

The Soviet Union was like a person who saves a person from being killed, then rapes them afterward.

[dp0622]

can you explain that to a non military guy? :) I understand if it would take too long.
Was our victory not as incredible against Germany as it seemed?
Kursk was a bigger tank battle than bulge.
My uncle Jimmy said pre bulge and bulge battles were horrifying. He sat on tank emptying machine gun into Germans and crying. Poor guy Deceased. Tattoo of his name on arm with dad’s and uncle Ralph’s :)
Another heartbreaking thought is what if we did nothing to Japan for four years then dropped the A bombs. But it couldn’t have been that simple right?

[PGR88]

Too bad the UK and the US couldn’t have figured out a way to let Stalin and Hitler bash each others brains out for a few years before getting involved.

[tcrlaf]

The war and its gruesomeness on the Eastern front is almost impossible for Americans to imagine.

My Grandfather spent almost 3 years in Russia, from Barbarossa, to Leningrad, to the Narva Line, and lived to tell about it later.
A Heer Civil Engineer, he said he built bridges across Russia, and blew them all up on the way out.

[dead]

They also, like all communist states, greatly valued the political entity of the state far more than the individual soldiers. They would fight until the only people left alive were the politicians.

[Flag_This]

"Too bad the UK and the US couldn’t have figured out a way to let Stalin and Hitler bash each others brains out for a few years before getting involved."

That was Stalin's plan: Let the Nazis and the Allies beat each other's brains out and then the soviet union would roll in to sweep up the pieces. He didn't figure that France would collapse in six weeks.

[The Toll]

I have read to many verifiable German and Russian accounts of what happened. There was no quarter. None. It was truly unimaginable. That’s why I understand the failure to grasp the scope by most people. We have never asked our soldiers to get up every single morning and win a Congressional Metal of Honor before lunch. We simply haven’t.

[okie01]

Yet Hitler went ahead with it, fearful that waiting another year would give Stalin more time to build up to attacking Germany, instead.

There is a school of thought that, had Operation Barbarossa been delayed much longer, the Soviet Union would have attacked Germany.

As it was, Barbarossa found the Soviet forces well forward of where a defensive line would normally have been established and, as a consequence, highly vulnerable to envelopement tactics.

If the Soviets were moving into position to launch an attack, this would explain their location.

[gattaca]

Kind of sounds like Van Jones and the bottom up/nside out plan for America. Pit the top producers against the bottom rungs and turn us inside out.

[elhombrelibre]

Here is a link to a very good book on the Soviets and the war.

http://www.amazon.com/No-Simple-Victory-Europe-1939-1945/dp/0143114093/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431150834&sr=1-1&keywords=no+simple+victory

I certainly accept that the Russians paid an overwhelming price in the war against Hitler. However, Stalin's conspiring with Hitler made the start of the war possible. And even when Churchill and others warned Stalin of Hitler imminent double cross in (22 Jun 1942 Operation Barbarossa), Stalin failed to prepare for the war. In addition, Stalin faithfully provided supplies in abundance to Nazis right up until the Nazis turned on them. So Stalin was aiding and abetting Hitler in his attempts to finish off England. It must be said that Stalin's strategy and tactics also contributed to the huge losses of Soviet slave people. Finally, people need to keep in mind that Stalin killed huge numbers of his own soldiers even as they fought the Nazis, and killed many of those soldier who had had the bad circumstance to have been captured by the Nazis. One barely know chapter of the war was Operation Keelhaul. It reflects badly on England, the USA, and the USSR. See this link:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v1/v1n4p371_lutton.html

[elhombrelibre]

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v1/v1n4p371_lutton.html

[tcrlaf]

Most of the German units American Troops faced on the western front were weaker (2 Regiments instead of the standard three), with less artillery and more inferior equipment, and less training, than the German Units fighting in Russia.

(Some of these were made up of Russian Volunteers in German Service, called “Hiwi’s”. Several of the German Battalions the Americans encountered on D-Day defending the beaches of Normandy weren’t actually germans, but Russian Volunteers, under German officers.)

There were exceptions, of course, almost always the SS Divisions, which had first priority for new equipment, and people.

[tophat9000]

Sure forget they started the war as one of Hitler allies to split up Poland.. Oh and forgot that they did not even join in on Japan till the last few days..

[dp0622]

FDR gets worshipped. Not by me. Communist at heart. Horrible what they did after the war. I never knew. But not shocked with the people in charge. Perhaps western decline goes back to the years immediately after the way with the play nice with Russians attitude.

[dp0622]

Incredible to learn these things for the first time at 46!!

[nathanbedford]

I have often speculated about whether the terrible losses sustained by Germans on the Eastern front have contributed in some perverse way to the present timidity of Germany concerning war in general and Russian aggression in Ukraine in particular.

I know of individuals here in Germany whose fathers made it back from Russia after enduring brutality, unbelievable hardship and internment in Russian gulags. I cannot but surmise that the Germans have collectively concluded, "never again" but in an entirely different context from that which motivates the Israelis.

The German reaction against the invasion of Iraq was virtually unanimous and visceral to the degree that I do not believe they can be explained solely by elitist in control of the media. Unfortunately, this attitude has been turned against America because America is seen not as policeman of the world any longer but as a bully. Yes, elitist left-wing propaganda this fosters this view but the seeds must fall on fertile ground.

[dfwgator]

What cannot be denied, however, is that while we did the building, they did the dying. In massive, unbelievable numbers.

Most of them unnecessarily because of Stalin's incompetence and callous disregard for the lives of his soldiers.

[tcrlaf]

The Germans were surprised to find so many Divisions deployed forward in the Early days of the invasion, and just as amazed at how poorly they were led.

The huge failure though, was the complete failure of German Intelligence to detect the nearly two million Soviet troops deployed in Southern Russia and Ukraine to hold down anti-Soviet unrest in the ‘Stans”.

It was these Soviet units that set back the Barbarossa timetables so badly. The Pre-invasion German war plan never accounted for them, and the supply chain could only handle so much.

[Flag_This]

"Most of them unnecessarily because of Stalin's incompetence and callous disregard for the lives of his soldiers."

It certainly didn't help that Stalin wiped out a good chunk of his own officer corps just prior to WWII.