RE: Patton’s question.
My snap judgement is no we could not with the forces at hand.
While I believe that the US had the Soviets outclassed in the air the Red Army would have outclassed the US Army in armor. M4 Shermans would not have matched up well with the T-34s and JS-2s and 3s of the Russians. I would have to give a slight edge to the Russians in artillery as well. Quantity has a quality all to itself.
While the US would have an edge on the Soviets regards logistics the Soviets would have the advantage of falling back on their homeland.
My 2 cents for what it is worth.
Regards
alfa6 ;>}
Thanks!
Maybe all it would have taken was a billion flyers dropped from aircraft telling the peoples of eastern Europe that if they would turn on their Soviet tyrant masters we would help them establish their own free governments.
I’m just sayin’...
The canard foisted on a gullible west by surviving German generals is that the “Red Horde” was an armed mob that overwhelmed the Germans in a tidal wave of numbers. While the Red Army was something of a club that bludgeoned the Germans into submission, and they regularly bought victory at a fearsome blood price, they were not what the Germans portrayed them to be.
By 1945 the Red Army was an immense, well trained, experienced, well led, well equipped professional army willing to do anything to win. The question is not whether we would have pushed them back to the Urals, but whether they would have pushed us back to Dunkirk.
Not really true. The Americans had lots of 90mm tank destroyers and tanks by the end of the war. We also had large numbers of 88mm German vehicles at our disposal along with vast numbers of good 76mm guns platforms. We would have complete air superiority in days and their tanks and artillery would have been liquidated by air power. The Soviets were bad to mass their forces which didn’t have to worry about strategic bombers by 1945.
If Germany had air superiority in the East, the Soviets never would have made it past Poland before we had overrun all of Germany.
“The American Army as it now exists could beat the Russians with the greatest of ease, because, while the Russians have good infantry, they are lacking in artillery, air, tanks, and in the knowledge of the use of the combined arms, whereas we excel in all three of these.”
— General George C. Patton.
I agree with henkster, that the U.S. Army could not have defeated the Red Army and taken back Eastern Europe, much less parts of the Soviet Union. Patton's statement was, characteristically, hyperbole.
Our infantry would have been badly outnumbered.
We have discussed on numerous occasions the problems of the Sherman tank. The only reason we could defeat German armor was by outproducing them in large numbers. The Pershing had not been produced in any significant numbers and production was not being ramped up. The T-34 was a darn good tank in its day.
Our artillery was superior, but again badly outnumbered.
Perhaps most significant, our soldiers, senior leaders and the American people were in no mood to support another European war after have just won this one. All anyone wanted was our boys home as soon as possible.
Roosevelt was a squish whose administration was shot through with Soviet agents. But negotiations are generally not about who is tougher or more blustery, but about bargaining power. Who had the chips?
What was Roosevelt's hand at Yalta? We were mired on the German border having just pushed the Bulge back to where we started on December 15. A tough fight for the Rhineland and the Rhine crossing were still ahead of us. The Russians, on the other hand, were 40 miles from Berlin. The Red Army occupied most of the Baltics, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and was invading Hungary and Yugoslavia. Churchill made his private "naughty" side deal with Stalin for who would have how much influence in each Eastern European country.
Looking at this picture, most prognosticators would have been worried about the Russians taking not only Berlin but most of Germany before we and the British could get there. Getting Stalin to agree to share post-war Germany in thirds and Berlin in thirds looked like a pretty good deal. He also agreed to a coalition government in Poland including non-Communists, a deal he would break right around the time we are now discussing. Had we insisted on unequal zones of occupation with the Russians getting a smaller zone not including Berlin we would have had a war on our hands in with the Russians in February 1945 in addition to an un-won war with the Germans.
So, what about Patton and Simpson dashing to Berlin in the Spring after the German collapse in the West? Could Patton have taken Berlin in two days? No. As the German perimeter shortened there would have been enough Nazi fanatics or men with guns pointed at their backs to inflict sharp casualties to take land that was already earmarked for the Soviet zone of occupation. Worse, as henkster uncovered, there was significant sentiment in the Red Army that if we tried to take Berlin, which they regarded as their prize for the suffering in the East, they would have started lobbing shells in our direction. That would put a damper on Alive in 45.
Prague is a different question and I would have been inclined to occupy it. I'm not sure it would have made a difference. We were not going to occupy Czechoslovakia for the long term anyway. But, I understand Ike's thinking. The Russians reacted badly to the idea, so there was the possibility of conflict. Also, it made a lot of sense to send Patton to gobble up as much of Austria as he could to prevent the Sovs from dominating there.
I don't share your view of Ike. At the end of the day his broad front strategy worked, although there is plenty for us armchair strategists to debate. He also held together a very difficult coalition with an insubordinate Montgomery perhaps more difficult to deal with than the Russians. And, he ended the war in a way that minimized American casualties, especially with the guys Ernie Pyle admired most.
“While I believe that the US had the Soviets outclassed in the air the Red Army would have outclassed the US Army in armor.”
Russian quality may have fallen off since then in some areas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=S93ebaJXtXU