Posted on 05/01/2015 11:11:05 AM PDT by Brad from Tennessee
Late Thursday, the glitzy electric car company Tesla Motors, run by billionaire Elon Musk, ceased to be just a car company. As was widely expected, Tesla announced that it is offering a home battery product, which people can use to store energy from their solar panels or to backstop their homes against blackouts, and also larger scale versions that could perform similar roles for companies or even parts of the grid.
For homeowners, the Tesla Powerwall will have a power capacity of either 10 kilowatt hours or 7 kilowatt hours, at a cost of either $ 3,500 or $ 3,000. The company says these are the costs for suppliers and don’t include the cost of installation and a power inverter, so customers could pay considerably more than that.
The battery, says Tesla, “increases the capacity for a household’s solar consumption, while also offering backup functionality during grid outages.” At the same time, the company said it will producing larger batteries for businesses and utility companies — listing projects with Texas-based Oncor and Southern California Edison. . .
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Here’s another way to look at it: That $19,000 solar energy package that saves you 70% off your electricity? For $3,000 more, you could save the other 30%. Of course, that $19,000 package isn’t worth it for most homes.
Oh, I know a few things on the subject.
I built my own 100 KWH (storage capacity) solar system (infinitely expandable), and I also build small electric vehicles.
Have followed Tesla’s technology from since it was mere vapor ware.
And I’m looking forward with hope that the battery plant in Nevada will improve the technology and lower the price point of high capacity lithium cells.
But this is at best a small step forward, not a game changer.
“Let say it enables you to sell 10 KW-hrs more to the utility per day. At 12 cents/KWH, that’s $1.20...”
That’s the RETAIL price. The company only pays retail instead of wholesale because the government makes it, and then it has to raise the price to it’s other customers to make up the loss.
That’s bad, bad, socialist policy.
Of course there may be times and situations when it is worth more than the average wholesale cost.
But it’s never worth retail to the company.
Considering a gallon of propane has three times as many kwhrs in it... I’m underwhelmed.
Propane tank and generator make infinitely more sense economically for 99% of situations.
This is like saying you can replace the need for water by installing a home storage tank. It CAN be used to load shift or load level,but it isn’t a new SOURCE.
And,after 100 years of research, electric cars still aren’t economic in 99% of people’s needs for reliable transportation. Storage batteries are useful but far inferior to primary generators of energy.
I guess that’s the point of my original post. Yes, this battery moves in the right direction, but all the breathless reports I’ve seen today are heralding this as some seismic change. It isn’t from what I can tell.
And that’s my problem with Musk and Tesla. Like Apple, people seem to faint and worship upon hearing anything that emanates from them. I just don’t get it. And Musk, IMO, seems to be a guy who has a history of hyping everything to get government money and publicity.
Yeah, it’s great we may get to where we all would like to be with batteries, but this is just a garden variety lithium battery supersized for capacity, that’s it.
OK, it’s a cheap gimmick, but I’d market these with a simple plug that could connect to an exercise bike, treadmill, or other home exercise device. Yes, I know that you’d have to bust a gut exercising to generate dime’s worth of power, but i’ll bet the idea would sell.
Too bad the Washington Post "journalist" is clueless about the difference between "power" and "energy", huh...
Oh, wait, the reporter's name is "Chris Mooney".
Would that be the same Chris Mooney who authored the book, "The Republican War on Science"?
So, now, tell me who the scientific ignoramus is, Chris...
I understand.
The software that monitors usage and costs is really cool.
Theoretically, the batteries could store power from the grid during “Off-peak” rates and power the home during the higher cost periods.
When that is supplemented with solar etc, it could make a huge difference.
Net, net, it takes a burden away from the power companies and reduces costs for everyone.
Heh, exactly. An hour or so ago I emailed a friend on this topic, and said that likely the same people who are excited about this are the same ones that got excited about the Apple Watch... Despite the same thing being available from 'no name' Chinese manufacturers two years ago WITH built in cell phones... For 1/3 to 1/2 the price of the cheapest Apple.
Meh. With net incomes being less than 3% of total revenue in many energy markets, retail price is remarkably close to average cost... and actually far below incremental cost at peak hours.
When you figure out how to make your solar panels generate propane for less than $3,000, you be sure to write.
It sells for about $3/gal at the supply store.
For the same energy as the $3000 battery holds.
So that makes the payback period for the battery - compared to using propane- very long.
And you don’t have to make your neighbors chip in for a $20,000 solar array.
On the positive side this will develop the market.
Maybe with batteries eventually half this price other uses will emerge.
The inability of solar to supply power for heat and refrigeration is a big minus for it.
Currently I do see concentrator PV panels economically providing 2 or even 3 kwhr a day though- which adds up! (And doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to store.)
I forgot about that, once this type of storage becomes normal, then blackouts and peak prices will become out of date for the consumer, with the added benefit of back up power.
Ten kilowatt hours is the same energy as in a quart of gasoline. I’ll sell you my used oil cans for nothing, and you can keep the $3,500. Besides that, it’ll cost you about 75 cents to fill the quart bottle with gasoline. The electricity to charge the Tesla battery is closer to a couple of bucks.
Read this: US testing of lithium batteries alarms aviation officials http://news.yahoo.com/us-testing-lithium-batteries-alarms-aviation-officials-200358046—finance.html
International aviation officials are trying to quickly come up with safer packaging for cargo shipments of lithium-ion batteries on passenger planes after U.S. testing confirmed that aircraft fire suppression systems can’t prevent overheated batteries from causing powerful explosions and fires.
“The attraction of a lithium-ion battery is that lithium is the least dense metallic element, which means that weight-for-weight it can pack more power than other types of battery. But lithium is also a highly reactive substance; it belongs to the alkali metal group, which contains sodium and potassium, the high reactivity of which will be familiar from school chemistry classes.
“Like all batteries, lithium ones consist of two electrodes separated by an electrolyte. Typically for a lithium cell the electrolyte is a solution of lithium salts and organic solvents. When the battery is charged, lithium ions are driven from the electrolyte into a carbon anode. When the battery is discharged they flow back, creating a balancing flow of electrons in a circuit that powers the device.
“The trouble comes about if there is a small fault or damage is caused to the extremely thin separators that keep the elements of the battery apart. This can lead to an internal short-circuit and a subsequent build-up of heat. This can trigger what is known as a “thermal runaway” in which the battery overheats and can burst into flame. That can cause adjacent battery cells to overheat, which is why groups of cells in some battery packs (such as those used in Tesla cars) are kept in separate protective compartments.
“Lithium batteries can also be damaged by using them in hot environments, and by excessive discharging and charging—which is why most lithium batteries contain special circuits to prevent this. Catching fire if something goes wrong, then, is in their nature.”
http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/01/economist-explains-19
I haven’t been following it that much, but to me it seems everything Musk does is for the eventual purpose of building his dream city on Mars. I think that is why in other things he is ignoring hydrogen fuel cells or using parachute retrieval for his rocket booster - Mars does not have abundant water and parachutes don’t work well there. Or maybe I am just a conspiracy theorist.
>> a power capacity of either 10 kilowatt hours or 7 kilowatt hours, at a cost of either $ 3,500 or $ 3,000.
So one can run the toaster for like 3 minutes.
Better off with a generator and a few uninterruptible power supplies for the computers.
Return the solar power back to the grid for credits.
It’s amazing the BS the libs will peddle in the name of ‘goodness’.
Keep with the auto, Tesla. You gotta a good thing going there in my opinion.
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