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Analysis: What went wrong in the ‘Religious Freedom’ fight in Indiana and Arkansas?
LifeSiteNews/MassResistance ^ | 4/13/15 | Brian Camenker & Amy Contrada

Posted on 04/14/2015 6:04:22 AM PDT by wagglebee

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These were shameful surrenders. On the other hand, given the state of the national GOP, expecting any Republican politician to stand up for a pro-family principle under pressure is unrealistic.

And therein lies the real problem: the GOP's complete rejection of conservatism.

1 posted on 04/14/2015 6:04:22 AM PDT by wagglebee
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2 posted on 04/14/2015 6:05:19 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

No testosterone.


3 posted on 04/14/2015 6:05:54 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: wagglebee

They butted heads with the almighy Dollar. No surprise who won that battle.


4 posted on 04/14/2015 6:10:51 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: wagglebee
You already pulled the quote that I immediately grabbed.

Besides today's Republican leadership being squishy and wobbly, they attack the very base that they expected to have their backs on this?

-PJ

5 posted on 04/14/2015 6:10:51 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: wagglebee

Good analysis of the rout.

Only one side fights.


6 posted on 04/14/2015 6:20:10 AM PDT by sickoflibs (King Obama : 'The debate is over. The time for talk is over. Just follow my commands you serfs""')
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To: wagglebee

One simple word: cowardice.


7 posted on 04/14/2015 6:32:36 AM PDT by IronJack
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To: wagglebee
Analysis: What went wrong in the ‘Religious Freedom’ fight in Indiana and Arkansas?

Gutless politicians who can be bullied by the Gaystapo and their supporters.


8 posted on 04/14/2015 6:40:25 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp
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To: wagglebee

What’s the plan? Anyone?

When I heard that Walmart had given the word to the Arkansas governor to get his mind right, I immediately saw that as Walmart making themselves an extremely inviting target for direct action.

By which I mean a total boycott and regular picketing.

What is wrong with this idea?

I know - don-o suggested it. don-o needs to organize it. But, why would not even one of the existing organizations consider real direct action?


9 posted on 04/14/2015 6:42:08 AM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever!)
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To: wagglebee
2. Refusal to fight passage of LGBT anti-discrimination laws and local ordinances, or demand their repeal.
10 posted on 04/14/2015 6:44:28 AM PDT by Petrosius
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To: wagglebee

The children of darkness are way more committed than the children of light.


11 posted on 04/14/2015 6:52:45 AM PDT by thirst4truth
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To: wagglebee

This is an excellent analysis, as always, by Brian.

His organization is worthy of our most generous support.


12 posted on 04/14/2015 7:08:15 AM PDT by fwdude (The last time the GOP ran an "extremist," Reagan won 44 states.)
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To: wagglebee

Two scenarios:

1. A gay couple chooses a Christian provider for their wedding, then sues him when he refuses.

2. A gay couple chooses a Christian restaurant to buy a sandwich, then sues the restaurateur when he refuses.

I think, for a number of valid historical reasons, people in general support the Christian business owner in (1), but would support the gay couple in (2). The left-wing strategy was to conflate (1) and (2).

Was there anything that distinguished catering to a public display of homosexual activity, which the gay “wedding” is, and catering to a universal human need, such as eating sandwiches? I read the bill briefly and it does not seem to make the distinction.


13 posted on 04/14/2015 7:42:23 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: wagglebee
Over-focusing on “religious freedom” protections as the solution to this culture clash.

Under-focusing on the express wording of the first amendment, including both religious freedom and freedom to associate, is the error referred to here. When couched in terms of the whole amendment, the argument is much stronger and less prone to subversion by "feelings".

The lack of back bone in R politicians simply magnifies the outrageousness of the left's bull stuff.

14 posted on 04/14/2015 7:48:54 AM PDT by MortMan (All those in favor of gun control raise both hands!)
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To: wagglebee

” And therein lies the real problem: the GOP’s complete rejection of conservatism. ”

You totally missed their point. We conservatives shy away from activism and never take to the streets (like the other side does) to lend crucial support to (as well as hold the feet to the fire of) the people we elect.

We elect people and tell them OK go fight the war for us, we’ll have your back on free republic.

So wherein lies the real problem? We all have a mirror - all we need to do is look at it.


15 posted on 04/14/2015 7:53:23 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: annalex; xzins; P-Marlowe; trisham
Good analysis.

If I call a pizza place and tell them that I want two dozen pizzas delivered somewhere tomorrow night they will assume that it's some sort of gathering, but they won't ask what it is (it could be anything from a children's birthday party to a work function to a church gathering to a wedding). All the pizza place will do is ask for my credit card number and general info. And the reason for this is because they know that them providing pizza doesn't indicate their opinion one way or another on what the occasion is (nobody cares if there are a bunch of Papa John's boxes in a meth lab, it's just pizza).

However, weddings are different. A decorated wedding cake from a specific bakery carries an implicit endorsement and the same goes for a catering company with their name on vans outside. The ACLU and others might make a fuss, but would anyone really be surprised if a bakery refused to make a cake promoting pedophilia? Would a caterer be expected to cater an orgy? This is no different.

Seventeen years ago when my wife and I were getting things arranged for our wedding there was a particular bakery that we wanted to have the cake from. We made an appointment, went and tasted cakes, picked out a design and had it all figured out UNTIL we informed them that the wedding was over a hundred miles away and then the bakery refused to do it. We went back and forth for several days, we offered to pay for renting a refrigerated truck, we said we'd pay extra for their workers, we would have a fully-equipped commercial kitchen for them to use, etc. Basically, we told them that we would give them anything they wanted to make the cake; however, they were unwilling to take the risk of ruining the cake, they wouldn't even let us have someone else pick up the cake from them and bring it BECAUSE IT WOULD AFFECT THEIR REPUTATION. So, we respected their decision and got our wedding cake elsewhere and we continued to buy cakes and pastries from them until we moved away two years ago, we certainly never contemplated suing them.

16 posted on 04/14/2015 8:13:48 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I might add an e to GOP, there is a difference. The GOPe has been absent in the culture war, and now we are up against the wall with moral absolutes hanging in the balance.

One point that has not been mentioned other than by Mithter Limbaugh, and that is his research indicating that much of the internet opposition ginned up by homosexual activists rests in the capable hands of ten that’s right, TEN people with computers who can generate a blizzard of fake opponent in every state in these United States.


17 posted on 04/14/2015 8:14:52 AM PDT by wita
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To: Resolute Conservative

The organization of the Left is the Leviathan....that is the true strength of Communism—their organizational skills and ability to infiltrate and gain control of all institutions (and all allowed ideas), whether inside Catholic seminaries or on top of publishing companies who control all curricula

They gain the power positions and squeeze and threaten-—and they will kill the children or worse, of anyone who tries to thwart them.

All people have weaknesses....all-—and all can be destroyed by a word planted in the MSM which the Left has controlled for 100 years when JP Morgan bought up all the APs and the laundering Foundations were used to control even mainline (religionless) “churches”..

Everything is political and all ideas matter and affect Worldview. The Christian Worldview has been attacked since the 19th Century (or before) and it has to be destroyed to create “happy slavery”. No risk-taking mature, moral intelligent males are allowed in this culture anymore-—and they are fixating (sexualizing) boys into puerile, narcissistic stages (Bieberization)....so they will be easily controlled and manipulated-—Libido Dominandi (St. Augustine).

This is the Leviathan-—people in power (Demonic sodomites) are so evil and corrupt that there can be no opposition-—when there is great pushback and a great platform, it is Brietbart time. All people who knew Brietbart will be controlled-—and contained and the descent into hell continues with the elimination of all opposition.

Courage?????? That Virtue is intentionally eliminated in “public schools” as is all the intentional emasculation and destruction of Virtue in both girls and boys and the instillation of hate, dependency and “group think”-—”groupings” (Marxism) and sexualization (to destroy all Christian moral formation) and create evil, ignorant puerile males/females.)

All Virtues hinge on the other Virtues. Virtue is habituated and taught only in childhood and then encouraged by “culture”—with Classical Education (including Bible)-—Wisdom is worthless without Courage and Temperance and Justice.

What we see is lack of true Christianity (because they have a great chance of being killed—or their families will be)—Christianity of the St. Paul/Founding Father variety.

It is only Christian culture which became the most Free and Just-—no other Worldview sees the Face of God in all human beings and would be willing to die for their families and friends and Justice for All-—people who just want to be self-sufficient, and left alone, and Free and have Free Will to do what God demands of them, so they and their families will flourish. Freedom of Association and Freedom of Conscience and Private Property Rights which can’t be infringed upon, is essential for true Freedom. That elimination in all three areas is so obvious now, it is a JOKE—that we are “free”......LOL-—the Founders have been turning in their graves for 100 years.

Our “Legal” system is a joke.....and Cicero stated that when Just Law does not exist, it is a matter of time before complete destruction. Our “Laws” are being morphed into Rule of Man (Stalin’s Constitution) starting at the turn of the 20th century .


18 posted on 04/14/2015 9:05:48 AM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: All
Frank Zappa was right, "I want my children to grow up in a country with the First Amendment." I think we can add or discuss that another problem here is that it can be traced to the Civil Rights movement and Acts of the 1950's and 1960's. Senator Barry Goldwater was right in opposing them the way they were codified and passed. The result is that if someone is wronged or perceived to be wronged for any reason, it is a violation of civil rights even though many times it is not or shouldn't be. Goldwater's concern was the acts would violate the First Amendment as well as others.

Myself, I don't have a problem of who marries who, it should not be the province of the Federal Government. The only way the Feds could be involved is by the Amendment process where marriage is defined via the Constitution as many other counties have done such as Serbia and Russia. Still, even so, the main issue is the people are forced to go against their conscience to do something against their will. As my father puts it, that's slavery because they are being forced to work against their will and for someone who they don't want to work for. It is a two way street, if people want to be respected for their types of lifestyles and I have no problem with that then in return, they need to respect others who view things differently. If a bakery will not do it for reasons of conscience, then just move on and find one who will. It is a two way street (or more). It's like that gay brochure showing gay friendly businesses, use that as a guide, it is the First Amendment and capitalism at work.

150 years ago, slavery ended with the Civil War, but it is coming back in many ways.
19 posted on 04/14/2015 9:24:47 AM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: wagglebee; annalex; Jim Robinson; P-Marlowe; trisham
Basically, we told them that we would give them anything they wanted to make the cake; however, they were unwilling to take the risk of ruining the cake, they wouldn't even let us have someone else pick up the cake from them and bring it BECAUSE IT WOULD AFFECT THEIR REPUTATION

That is an excellent story, Wagglebee, and it gives one reason a business can have to not provide a service. Marlowe gave one for lawyers the other day. They might simply not want to take a particular case or a particular kind of case.

I'll admit that I think race is a different issue. Race is my one holdout. There is something about a location that has a history of rejecting gingers, for instance, that would bother me. I wouldn't like a sign in a door that says, "No Gingers!" And the poor gingers could be living in an area where a majority feels negative toward gingers.

Where would they shop, eat, whatever?

In a big city, there'd be plenty of other businesses the gingers or their friends could shop at, and the ginger-haters would suffer in their business because of it. But in some small towns, that ginger-hating group could comprise the entire town.

But RACE is NOT a choice, a behavior, a whim. Race is among the highest order genetic typologies with zero deviation.

20 posted on 04/14/2015 9:27:59 AM PDT by xzins (Donate to the Freep-a-Thon or lose your ONLY voice. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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