For us civvie pukes who don't know what the what.
Posted on 04/11/2015 4:38:34 AM PDT by paterfamilias
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. — MV-22 Ospreys replaced the Marines’ last squadron of CH-46E helicopters Thursday, officially ending the Sea Knight’s 50-year run as the troop and supply transport workhorse of the Corps.
Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron 164 received the first Sea Knights assigned to the West Coast in early 1965 and introduced the medium-lift helicopter to combat in Vietnam in 1966. Parts of the squadron also flew missions in the evacuation of Saigon, making it the first in and last out of the Southeast Asian country.
More than 600 CH-46s, affectionately known as “Battle Phrogs,” were produced over the years, but on Thursday, just two remained. One is destined to join dozens of others in the “boneyard,” a storage space for retired aircraft, while the other — a shiny green model that flew missions in Vietnam — will go to the National Museum of the Marine Corps in Quantico, Va.
Alan Schramm served with HMM-164 in Vietnam in July 1968-August 1969, flying 727 missions. He traveled from New York for the ceremony, and wiped away tears as he recalled his unit’s camaraderie.
Gordon Pirtle flew in Vietnam with Schramm as a fellow lieutenant in 1968-69 and returned to the squadron as commander in April 1982-May 1984.
Many of his memories are tied to the aircraft, he said, and it holds a special place in the former Marines’ hearts.
“The 46 is part of our life — that’s our history,” he said.
Peter Zobenica, who was also a young lieutenant with the squadron in 1968-69, said that when the Marines wrapped up the unit’s battle colors during the ceremony, it felt like a shot to the heart.
Still, he said, the aircraft had a good run.
The first Ospreys were delivered to the Marine Corps in late 2005, and in 2006, a HMM-263 was redesignated as VMM-263, becoming the service’s first Osprey squadron. The aircraft reached “initial operating capacity” in 2007, and VMM-263 left for the plane’s first deployment later that year. The Marine Corps has been slowly but steadily replacing Phrogs with Ospreys ever since.
Though the redesignation became official Thursday, outgoing commander Lt. Col. Gabriel Valdez said it started 16 months ago. The squadron has been retiring aircraft to the boneyard since Valdez arrived, but even at their age, all are in great shape and combat-ready if needed, he said.
Valdez’s first assignment out of flight training was with HMM-164, but during his time as the unit’s commander, it was classified as a training squadron: HMMT-164.
Thursday, he said he was proud to be present to see the unit drop the “T,” signifying a potential return to combat.
“This squadron’s DNA is in combat,” he said, and now it will be ready to get back to responding “to the sounds of chaos.”
And though HMMT-164 is now VMM-164, incoming commander Lt. Col. Eric Aschenbrenner assured the Marines that they are all still “knight riders.”
“We’re going to continue the legacy” of the unit, he said. “We’re just writing a new chapter.”
Love the osprey. It does it all. Just hope they got all the kinks out.
I hated the CH-46.
I hope the Osprey works out.
Will the naysayers be here soon to do what they always do with new systems?
I see them everyday. They are amazing craft.........
I liked the 53.
There is a hardcore band of Osprey haters out there who refuse to recognize the great leaps in performance over the old, not-so-reliable Phrog, despite the ever-growing track record of the V-22. I gave up trying to convince them with facts and logic years ago.
TC
We used to use the 46s for swimmer cast and recovery, dropping out of the “hell hole” in the belly of the deck, and climbing back up a wire rope ladder. The 46s were older than their crews even 20 years ago. We also used to push inflatable combat raiding craft out the ramp and jump in after them. And we used them for “Hollywood” parachute drops. They were a workhorse for frogs for many decades. The 46s were already ancient decades ago. The fact they were still flying was a tribute to their construction, maintenance and updates. I’m glad to see the Osprey has worked out. I hope they have just a long and successful of a run. They are many times better at hauling troops and cargo than the 46s.
When you sit on a New Jersey beach, you’re guaranteed a nice aerial parade of helicopters zipping about a quarter mile offshore. All my life it seems, I’ve watched and loved the Sea Knights and Sea Kings. Then last year I saw my first Osprey. It was in “airplane mode” and it’s amazing how huge the 38-foot propeller blurs look when the craft is heading toward you. And then when it’s passing you, it’s amazing how fast it seems — 316 mph max speed vs. 166 mph for a Sea Knight or Sea King. As a casual but interested aircraft-watcher, my first look at an Osprey will not be forgotten.
"Since becoming operational in 2007, the V-22 has had three crashes resulting in six fatalities, and several minor incidents"
Three crashes and six dead in 8 years.
"On 15 July 1966 during Operation Hastings, two CH-46As BuNo 151930 and BuNo 151936 of HMM-164 collided at LZ Crow while another, BuNo 151961, crashed into a tree avoiding the first two, resulting in 2 Marines killed." .... "On 9 December 1999, a CH-46D Sea Knight BuNo 154790 of HMM-166 crashed during a boarding exercise off the coast of San Diego, California, killing seven U.S. Marines."
Two crashes and 9 dead in 50+ years.
What an impressive record for acombat helo. What about the onethat fell off aship upon landing?
For us civvie pukes who don't know what the what.
The MV-22s have done both fastrope and helocast operations. Both are successful, but require due diligence because of the intensity of downwash under the tilted nacelles. What you get along with more power in the new machine. Wait til the CH-53K comes into service!
TC
CH-46 Sea Knight Has History of Mechanical Trouble
At nearly 40 years old, however, the Sea Knight has to be inspected more frequently for mechanical flaws, and the Marine Corps version is limited to delivering 12 troops instead of the 25 as originally designed. The Marines say its cost per flight hour has risen 75 percent in recent years.From May 1989:At the time, the Marine Corps lamented the deteriorating state of the helicopter and underscored the urgency of replacing it with the V-22 Osprey, a hybrid helicopter-airplane that has been hampered by fatal crashes in testing.
"Maintenance personnel are finding that components that have never before failed are beginning to break due to increased age and fatigue," the Marines said at the time.
Among some recent accidents involving the Sea Knight: In 2001, a CH-46 crashed into a river during a nighttime exercise near Camp Lejeune, N.C., killing three Marines and injuring two. In 1999, a CH-46 went down off San Diego, killing seven Marines.
Recent Crashes of CH-46 Helicopters With AM-Marine Crash
May. 30, 1989 9:57 PM ET
UNDATED Undated (AP) _ Here are some fatal crashes that have taken place over the past five years involving CH-46 ''Sea Knight'' helicopters operated by the U.S. Navy and Marines.
- March 17, 1989, four Marines killed when a CH-46 crashed in rice paddy on east coast of South Korea during annual ''Team Spirit'' exercises.- Oct. 31, 1988, four Marines killed when two CH-46 helicopters apparently collided while conducting training operations on Okinawa.
- Oct. 25, 1988, two Marine helicopters, a Boeing CH-46 and a Bell UH-1N, apparently collided above the Arizona desert, killing nine Marines and one Air Force officer. The helicopters were taking part in a training exercise and the pilots were wearing night vision goggles.
- May 11, 1988, a CH-46 crashed into Pacific Ocean about a mile from the island of Oahu in Hawaii, killing three Marines. The helicopter was on a test flight after maintenance work on its rotor blades.
- March 23, 1987, a Navy CH-46 crashed in Zambales province, the Philippines, during a training flight. Four servicemen were killed.
- August 29, 1986, eight Marines were killed when a Navy CH-46 crashed on take-off from the carrier USS Saipan off Bodoe in northern Norway during NATO exercises. Thirteen other Marines were injured.
- November 17, 1985, a Navy CH-46 crashed into another helicopter parked on the deck of the assault ship Iwo Jima in the Mediterranean Sea, killing one sailor and injuring five other servicemen.
- October 15, 1985, 14 Marines and a Navy chaplain were killed when a CH- 46D taking off from the USS Guadalcanal crashed into the Atlantic Ocean off North Carolina. Four survivors were rescued.
Maybe...some seem to think so and some don't.
I’ll never forget my first duty station on Okinawa.. at a Helicopter base, Futemna.. altho all kinds of fixed wing flew out of there too. the equipment then was already pretty worked over.
The two weeks before I arrived , they had a couple 46s crash.. transmission failures..
MAG-36 was one of the initial air groups in country.. no telling how many more went down before or after that.. I remember going to rifle range up island later that year and riding a Sea Stallion.. not a 46.. whew. not sure I’d ride a Osprey.
thx, interesting read, last paragraph in particular.
Are you joking? You are calling the Osprey a “new” system? It’s like calling the f-35 a “new” plane.
LOL, shitters killed all the friends I lost during 20 years as a frog pilot. I hate riding in them, always sit at the end by the ramp.
My son was a Phrog pilot - now flying a UH-1Y Super Huey.
His feeling is that the Marine Corps should have gone ahead with the Super-Phrog proposed by Boeing and also bought the Osprey.
The Osprey is far faster that any helo, but needs an LZ twice the size of the Phrog, with a cabin of roughly the same size as the Phrog’s.
He would have deployed MEU’s with both Phrogs and Ospreys for maximum flexibility and function.
But what does he know? He’s just end-user, bringing Marines to and from the fight.
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