Posted on 03/31/2015 8:56:24 AM PDT by MosesKnows
When I dine in an Indian restaurant, I find fish, poultry, lamb, and vegetable dishes on the menu but no beef dishes.
Do I have a right to demand a steak dinner in an Indian restaurant or a ham and swiss cheese sandwich on rye in a Jewish deli?
“the bakery sells custom cakes for weddings. In fact, they had previously done a cake to celebrate the wedding of two dogs!”
The halal butcher sells meat.
Perhaps they sell a rather odd meat, say camel meat.
Therefore they must sell pork?
The problem with the analogy is that, in most of these cases, the same-sex couple is not requesting a different type of cake. They are requesting the same exact cake (same shape, same frosting, same everything). The only difference is that they plan to use the cake in a same-sex “wedding.” So, your analogy of asking for different products is not apt.
Re: “How about if a gay couple comes in and orders off the menu?
Can you refuse to serve them due to religious objections?”
I guess I don’t understand your question. What does a gay person ordering “off menu” have to do with religious objections? Unless they want me to make a “penis” cake or cater for a same-sex wedding, I don’t see any grounds for refusing service.
Here's an idea. All the businesses being sued into non-existence by the LGBT thugs could similarly limit their lines of wedding cakes and floral arrangements to those that unambiguously represent their religious beliefs.
Sorry, our cakes are either from the Cross pan, or the Star-of-David pan. You pick.
Sure they were. The Muslim taxi drivers at the Minneapolis airport (where most of these stories happened) are prohibited from refusing rides because of dogs/alcohol/etc, and when they challenged those rules they lost in court.
How about if the owner of a limo rental company wanted to refuse to rent a limo for a same-sex wedding? When he is renting for traditional marriages?
If they're simply ordering as other diners, I would have no reason to refuse them service.
“The problem with the analogy is that, in most of these cases, the same-sex couple is not requesting a different type of cake. They are requesting the same exact cake (same shape, same frosting, same everything).”
The above does not make sense in the context of your following sentence:
“The only difference is that they plan to use the cake in a same-sex “wedding.”
If it is all the same, how could it possibly be known it is for a same sex “wedding”?
___
The thing is, you can go in and on with this sort of minutia, as you are doing, but it side steps the main issue of what rights do business people have with respect to their religious or other closely held beliefs and that applies to all religions, including atheists.
What if the dinner is a prelude to sex?
There’s NO way that I should know what they’re planning to do after dinner.
Does the restaurant provide those items to any other guest, but refuses them to you?
The above does not make sense in the context of your following sentence:
“The only difference is that they plan to use the cake in a same-sex “wedding.”
If it is all the same, how could it possibly be known it is for a same sex “wedding”?
Because the two people getting "married" may come in to shop for the cake together. Couples often do.
Re: “The only difference is that they plan to use the cake in a same-sex “wedding.” So, your analogy of asking for different products is not apt.”
I agree with you that the analogy is not relevant. The issue to me, as a Christian, is the intent of the use of my product or service. But, that is only an issue with me if I am told what my services are to be used for.
If I am told that my services or product will be used in something that I have a religious objection to, whether that is a same-sex wedding ceremony, a NAMBLA convention, or jihadists promo-weekend at Disneyland - I will refuse to participate in that business transaction. If I pay a price, I pay a price.
This arguing is all so idiotic (not meaning you - I mean this whole religious objection = bigotry).
Back when things were not so insane, I once did some freelance business hiring myself out as a pianist to play live piano for parties (usually Christmas parties or Wedding receptions). One day I got a call from someone asking me about performing at a Christmas party. We discussed the date and times, style of music, etc. Then, the customer said to, “Oh, by the way, this is a party for a gay organization, would I have a problem with that?” I told him that, yes, I would not be comfortable in that situation and that he should probably look elsewhere.
He didn’t get upset and said he understood. I thanked him for being upfront with me about it and I gave him some suggestions as to where he could look for musicians who might be able to help him. That was that. He respected my feelings in the matter and I treated him respectfully as well. There is no reason for all this legal intimidation except for the agenda of the gay fascists.
A better analogy would be to go into a Muslim print shop, and demand they print 1000 copies of a Mohammad cartoon.
This all stem from the meme of ‘equality’ and what it means. Where do your rights start and mine end?
If the intent had been to ensure that people get served then the laws could have required that a store/service refer instead of refuse business that they are not comfortable with...
The purpose of the law was to enable preying on religious business people.
Re: “How about if the owner of a limo rental company wanted to refuse to rent a limo for a same-sex wedding? When he is renting for traditional marriages?”
In my opinion, the owner of the limo company has the right to refuse service if he becomes aware that his business is being used to parrticipate in something he considers immoral, unethical, or violates his conscience. That goes for leftwing or atheist owned businesses that do not wish to do business with religious groups or conservative groups because it violates their conscience. This is not a difficult issue.
If the owner is unaware that the limo is being used for a same-sex wedding, then renting it does not violate his conscience. The best policy is “don’t ask” - but if the customer makes a point of informing you of the intent to use your product or service for something that violates your conscience, then you have the right of religious freedom/freedom of conscience to refuse to participate in that business transaction.
That’s good to know. Thanks for the update.
“Because the two people getting “married” may come in to shop for the cake together. Couples often do.”
How do the shop owners know they are not bothers buying a cake for their sister’s wedding?
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