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To: LucyT; ZULU
The actual izlam ‘heavenly’ reward is seventy-two (72) raisins, not virgins.

I've seen translations (by western scholars) saying 'raisins or grapes', since what's on offer in paradise, according to the Koran is meant to be food and drink, more sensual than sexual.

However, the Arabic word (in this context) which has also been used in Persian post-Islamic invasion, is "houri or huri" (pronounced hoo-ree) in paradise. It means a woman of very white or fair skin complexion with very dark eyes - very pure beings, maybe akin to angels.

The almost male equivalent of huri is a Gholam or Ghulam; again an Arabic word meaning a young male servant. Muslim women in paradise are promised only 1 of them. But it's unclear if a Gholam is meant to offer sexual pleasure or just be a servant.

In any case, most muslim religious leaders don't go into detailed explanations to their followers; the spin they put on it is 72 virgins not grapes/raisins.

63 posted on 01/17/2015 4:56:03 PM PST by odds
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To: odds; melancholy; ZULU; azishot; WildHighlander57; Old Sarge; null and void; Velveeta
“There is a misunderstanding in translation. The actual ‘heavenly’ reward is seventy-two (72) green grapes, not virgins.”

I believe it’s “raisins.” Nevertheless, there is nothing “heavenly” about feral inventions.

The feral translation used to recruit ignorant, horny young feral animals is “virgins.”

46 posted on ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2015‎ ‎4‎:‎00‎:‎14‎ ‎PM by melancholy

65 posted on 01/17/2015 6:28:24 PM PST by LucyT
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To: odds; LucyT; azishot; Texas Fossil
Please pardon the Arabic formatting. Mixing of writing Arabic (right to left) with English (left to right) on html post, is quite odd.

Many Moslems believe that many things mentioned in Hadith and books of tradition and Mohammed's life are nothing but agendas to intimidate people into submission by islamic tyrants and now terrorists. Moslems believe in the unchanged Qura'an. (Death penalty for changing one letter! Of course!) But no death penalty for lies and misinterpretation by lousy "sheikhs" issuing fatwas and terrorists chopping innocent people's heads!

1- No "72" as a number and no word "virgin(s)" mentioned in Quran. The 72/70/700/7000 virgins in paradise as a reward for the true believers came only in heritage books "كتب التراث والسيرة" written by people after hundreds of years of beginning of Islam, obviously nonsense. Only in Quran "حور العين" , which is "beautiful women," virgins or not, who diverted the eyes, eye candy, if you will.

(9) كَذَ‌ٰلِكَ وَزَوَّجْنَاهُم بِحُورٍ عِينٍ ( سورة الدخان , Ad-Dukhan, Chapter #44, Verse #54)

(10) مُتَّكِئِينَ عَلَىٰ سُرُرٍ مَّصْفُوفَةٍ ۖ وَزَوَّجْنَاهُم بِحُورٍ عِينٍ ( سورة الطور , At-tur, Chapter #52, Verse #20)

Gholam or Ghulam; again an Arabic word meaning a young male servant. Muslim women in paradise are promised only 1 of them. But it's unclear if a Gholam is meant to offer sexual pleasure or just be a servant.

Not totally true. If we hire "kids" to cut our lawns or some such, it doesn't mean that the word "kids" mean anything other than "young persons," unless one adds a description or context. It's exactly the same in Arabic.

2- "غلمان" was mentioned once in the context YOU meant as domestic servants: (غلمان = plural of غُلَامٌ = boys)

(1) ۞ وَيَطُوفُ عَلَيْهِمْ غِلْمَانٌ لَّهُمْ كَأَنَّهُمْ لُؤْلُؤٌ مَّكْنُونٌ ( سورة الطور , At-tur, Chapter #52, Verse #24)

While other verses mention it with the true meaning (غُلَامٌ = boy < 18 years of age) :

(7) يَا زَكَرِيَّا إِنَّا نُبَشِّرُكَ بِغُلَامٍ اسْمُهُ يَحْيَىٰ لَمْ نَجْعَل لَّهُ مِن قَبْلُ سَمِيًّا ( سورة مريم , Maryam, Chapter #19, Verse #7)

(8) قَالَ رَبِّ أَنَّىٰ يَكُونُ لِي غُلَامٌ وَكَانَتِ امْرَأَتِي عَاقِرًا وَقَدْ بَلَغْتُ مِنَ الْكِبَرِ عِتِيًّا ( سورة مريم , Maryam, Chapter #19, Verse #8)

(9) قَالَ إِنَّمَا أَنَا رَسُولُ رَبِّكِ لِأَهَبَ لَكِ غُلَامًا زَكِيًّا ( سورة مريم 19#Maryam, Chapter #19, Verse x)

(10) قَالَتْ أَنَّىٰ يَكُونُ لِي غُلَامٌ وَلَمْ يَمْسَسْنِي بَشَرٌ وَلَمْ أَكُ بَغِيًّا ( سورة مريم , Maryam, Chapter #19, Verse #20)

The last one is a reference to Virgin Mary. Translation: "she said I had a غُلَامٌ [= boy] and no human touched me and I was not a sinner." A CLEAR REFERENCE TO THE BIRTH OF JESUS.

In Islam, Jesus is considered a Prophet, NOT a domestic servant. Many stupid Moslems don't know that, according to Islam, if a Moslem doesn't believe in Jesus, Moses, etc. as Prophets, HE IS CONSIDERED AN INFIDEL.

You asked: what are "raisins and grapes" in Arabic? They are: زبيب and عنب, respectively.

Happy MLK day! 😛

74 posted on 01/19/2015 11:59:31 AM PST by melancholy
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