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NAZI PUSH MOUNTS IN POWER, 13 DIVISIONS USED; FOG BALKS AIR BLOWS AT RAMPAGING COLUMNS (12/21/44)
Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 12/21/44 | Drew Middleton, Wes Gallagher, Clifton Daniel, Harold Denny, Richard J.H. Johnston, Sidney Shalett

Posted on 12/21/2014 4:44:30 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson

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TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: history; milhist; realtime; worldwarii
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To: Tax-chick
I ran across a cool story tonight that I just had to share.

A couple of days after the vicious battle for La Gleize, in which Peiper's 6th kampfgruppe was finally eradicated, the American tank recovery teams came into the shattered village to claim the wreckage of the German armor. The local innkeeper's wife, Jenny Geenan, offered the Americans a bottle of cognac for one of the Tiger tanks in order to keep it in place as a memorial.

It's still there today if you visit La Gleize.


61 posted on 12/21/2014 7:15:18 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: henkster

Interesting. Henkster, do you have a map of this stuff? I thought Bastogne, not St. Vith, was the key here.


62 posted on 12/21/2014 7:15:35 PM PST by PapaNew (The grace of God & freedom always win the debate in the forum of ideas over unjust law & government)
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To: Tax-chick

Panzers in Winter

https://books.google.com/books?id=3ZNVME6-LHAC&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=peiper+ran+out+of+gas&source=bl&ots=GbISl2OnzS&sig=OGsRVANl7b56zkenYc9-GGIRcVM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p4SXVN22CsrCsATa74CQBw&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=peiper%20ran%20out%20of%20gas&f=false


63 posted on 12/21/2014 7:16:58 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Tax-chick; EternalVigilance
This was the crux of the dreadful "Battle of the Bulge" movie, iirc.

??? You didn't like those scenes of German M-48 panzers rampaging across the Ardennes Desert?

64 posted on 12/21/2014 7:20:52 PM PST by fso301
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To: fso301

lol...


65 posted on 12/21/2014 7:22:37 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Tax-chick

I’d like to be in on that discussion. Guess we’ll have plenty of time to do that.


66 posted on 12/21/2014 7:36:54 PM PST by PapaNew (The grace of God & freedom always win the debate in the forum of ideas over unjust law & government)
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To: Tax-chick

The December 43 attack involved the better part of XLVIII and XXIV Panzer Corps, and was most of the mobile striking power on the southern half of the German front. It made some progress in hard fighting, but by then the Germans were too weak to do more than gain a hard fought local success against a much larger Soviet opponent. It may well have been the memory of this operation that helped influence Hitler to launch his decisive attack in the west.


67 posted on 12/21/2014 8:11:47 PM PST by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: PapaNew

I’ll see what I can find.


68 posted on 12/21/2014 8:15:53 PM PST by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: henkster; PapaNew

Short Version:

St.Vith was a key road junction for the 6th SS Panzer Army advance. Between the Americans holding the Elsenborn Ridge and St. Vith the Germans had no where to go.

Due to the terrain in the Ardennes the Battle of the Bulge was as much a fight for roads and crossroads as anything else.

Bastonge was key to the 5th Panzer Army and the German failure to capture it in a timely manner meant the 5th Panzer Army abilty to maneuver was severely restricted.

Plus Bastonge had “Nuts” :-)

Regards

akfa6 ;>}


69 posted on 12/22/2014 2:23:26 AM PST by alfa6
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To: PapaNew

Yes, all those elements are appealing to me. For several years, I wasn’t a regular on the thread, but I would notice it occasionally and usually comment on something in the ads.


70 posted on 12/22/2014 2:38:09 AM PST by Tax-chick (Remember Malmedy!)
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To: EternalVigilance

Cute story!


71 posted on 12/22/2014 2:53:27 AM PST by Tax-chick (Remember Malmedy!)
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To: henkster; alfa6; Homer_J_Simpson

The units holding St. Vith are one of the oddest grab-bag assortments I’ve seen, often not even in each other’s chain of command, but somehow it worked. Having 7th Armored, a veteran division with good leaders, centering them seems to have been a key. The 82nd sure provided needed shoring too.


72 posted on 12/22/2014 2:28:01 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: occamrzr06
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; Or close the wall up with our English dead. In peace there's nothing so becomes a man As modest stillness and humility: But when the blast of war blows in our ears, Then imitate the action of the tiger; Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage; . . .

Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'

73 posted on 12/22/2014 2:39:46 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets; PapaNew; henkster; Tax-chick
Interesting. I wonder if some have thought that instead of lengthening the war, the desperate Nazi offensive might have actually shortened the war because after this flash in the pan, they didn’t have much left.

Yes, we've seen what a hard slog the Allied fall/winter offensive has been. Now, the Germans have come out of their defenses and are playing in the open. The German casualties will not be hugely larger than ours but they can't replace them and will have lost their strategic reserve in the West.

74 posted on 12/22/2014 2:45:16 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: henkster; alfa6; Homer_J_Simpson
It was folly to try this without enough gas to get to the Meuse, much less Antwerp.

It would have been a better use of Skorzeny's infiltrators to have them drive the road net looking for First Army HQ and its supply dumps. A study of a road map would lead to some pretty good guesses where the main supply dump might be.

75 posted on 12/22/2014 2:53:27 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

More important for the Nazis was the loss of material and ammunition. The German Army lacked firepower more than manpower at the end.


76 posted on 12/22/2014 2:54:06 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (This is known as "bad luck". - Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: EternalVigilance

King Tiger


77 posted on 12/22/2014 2:59:31 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you are not part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: colorado tanker

The whole thing would have been better aimed at the Soviets but Hitler was convinced that the US was weak-willed and would throw in the towel if pressed.


78 posted on 12/22/2014 3:02:23 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you are not part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: AppyPappy
I agree. Hiitler's high command knew what the Russians had built up behind their central front through the summer and fall and it was staggering.

I suppose he is grasping at delusions. Loss of the war does not mean just loss of power for Hitler and his key henchmen, it means death.

79 posted on 12/22/2014 3:08:03 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

There will be a noticeable lessening in the intensity in German resistance in the west starting around the end of January. The were stoked for this offensive, and when it failed, there was nothing left. No soldiers, no weapons, no supplies, no morale.


80 posted on 12/22/2014 5:50:45 PM PST by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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