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There Was No Way a P-51 Could Replace the A-10
War is Boring ^ | 12/16/2014 | oseph Trevithick

Posted on 12/17/2014 7:19:08 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie

The U.S. Air Force has a complicated relationship with its low- and slow-flying A-10 Warthog attack jet. And that’s putting it mildly. The flying branch has tried more than once to retire the ungainly A-10 in favor of speedier planes, only for lawmakers to block the move.

But on at least one occasion, the Air Force actually defended the heavily-armored, gun-armed Warthog from an unlikely challenger—a modern version of the World War II P-51 Mustang that Congress for some reason really loved.

In 1979, Congress demanded the Air Force test out the tiny Piper PA-48 Enforcer light attack plane—a derivative of the then-39-year-old P-51—as cheaper alternative to the A-10, which was brand new at the time. Five years later, the air service put two Enforcers through their paces.

(Excerpt) Read more at medium.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: a10; josephtrevithick; warisboring; warthog
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To: Gen.Blather
Interesting analogy.

For the rest of the story - the Boeing VP who managed FCS and "managed" to piss away $2B of the company's dollars was subsequently promoted to President of the Defense division, where he oversaw gutting the tactical aircraft part of the business and basically just spun the BDS wheels in the mud for half a decade. Now he's at the corporate HQ being groomed for the top spot of CEO of the whole company when the current CEO retires.

But it's all good because he's a "rock star" doncha' know. That ought to keep those tax payer dollars flowing into Boeing's coffers, because what Congress Critter doesn't want to be seen with a "rock star"??

41 posted on 12/17/2014 7:59:31 AM PST by liberty_lvr (Drill Gaia like a 3 am prom date)
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To: central_va

It’s Navy, silly.


42 posted on 12/17/2014 8:00:24 AM PST by onona (Obama's entire term reads like a John Semmens post.)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

All this talk about replacing the A-10 with a light attack aircraft to “saturate” the battlefield is fine and well as a theoretical discussion. Ask pilots if they’d rather go up in an A-10 or a modernized P-51 or P-38, or an armored crop-duster, and I suspect that you’ll get a different answer.

The A-10 is simply the best ground support aircraft ever designed and fielded. It is, by today’s standards, an incredibly cheap aircraft, and it is feared by our enemies. It can and has taken huge hits, or in some cases literally hundreds of hits, and brought its crew home safely to fly, bomb and strafe another day. From my perspective, we should be building MORE of them, with suitable replacement ceramic and/or Kevlar-type armor where it would increase survivablility, range, payload, etc. New engines might increase both range and payload - it has been nearly 40 years since it was designed, after all.

Those other planes were legendary - in their time. We no longer live in the 1940s, and we owe our aircrews better technology and a better chance of dying as old men in bed than a 1940s-designed plane, however much we like the way it looks or however much nostalgia we have for it. Armored crop-dusters are a great design exercise for college or grad students, but they have no place on a battlefield in which even cave-dwelling savages have Stingers or multi-barrelled AA guns.


43 posted on 12/17/2014 8:05:12 AM PST by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/buffonyk/GALLERY/show_image_v2.html?id=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.c.yimg.jp%2Fres%2Fblog-83-ea%2Fbuffonyk%2Ffolder%2F476382%2F85%2F7696385%2Fimg_0%3F1296652387&i=1


44 posted on 12/17/2014 8:05:40 AM PST by warsaw44
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To: GBA

The P-47 would have been a blast to fly. My personal favorite. 2000+hp, 8 .50cal’s, and a stout airframe, what else can you want?


45 posted on 12/17/2014 8:06:37 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

Where is the 30mm gun?


46 posted on 12/17/2014 8:10:10 AM PST by GregoTX (Remember the Alamo)
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To: NFHale

I had a great book on this impressive plane but my brother lent it to a friend against my advice and we will never see again.


47 posted on 12/17/2014 8:12:44 AM PST by mcshot (It's way beyond time: Prove it or get the "F" out. He's hiding everything.)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

There was an upgraded, upgunned version of the P-38 called the “Chain Lightning”, but iirc it didn’t work very well. The P-38 was, at the time itvwas designed, bleeding edge techology with very tight tolerances. Didn’t lend itself to upgrades very well.

Although the upgraded/optimized P-38 you hypothecize did exist, somewhat, in the P-61 Black Widow.


48 posted on 12/17/2014 8:19:04 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

I was just discussing this plane last night. A knowledgeable source tells me the F35 is a dog.


49 posted on 12/17/2014 8:19:46 AM PST by DaxtonBrown (http://www.futurnamics.com/reid.php)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

beautiful photo


50 posted on 12/17/2014 8:23:45 AM PST by SteveH
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie
“At least it doesn’t look like a crop duster.”

What was that oddball twin boom crop duster that was in a Mad Max movie? I saw one of those at an air show once with military markings and hard points.

51 posted on 12/17/2014 8:26:52 AM PST by CrazyIvan (I lost my phased plasma rifle in a tragic hovercraft accident.)
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To: TheThirdRuffian
P-38 meets F-22 F-22 & P-38 photo SFAirSho09_0303_edited-1.jpg
52 posted on 12/17/2014 8:28:47 AM PST by The Great RJ (Pants up...Don't loot!)
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To: DaxtonBrown

I hear the same. It’s ugly too. I have a thing about ugly planes.


53 posted on 12/17/2014 8:29:09 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie
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To: tanknetter

>>There’s been considerable speculation over the years
>>about why the USAF sent F-51s, as opposed to F-47
>>Thunderbolts (which like the Mustang were still in
>>service with ANG units) to Korea.

The F-51 was cheaper to operate as a CAS plane, and the USAF Brass sold the remaining F-47N’s to the Nationalist Chinese.


54 posted on 12/17/2014 8:29:10 AM PST by Dark Wing
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To: central_va

Catch the sheet of plywood sticking out from under the rear fuse. The thing had dive brakes like barn doors.


55 posted on 12/17/2014 8:36:09 AM PST by Sequoyah101 (Adversity does not build character so much as expose it.)
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To: All
Don't forget the low cost Rutan ARES project from Scaled Composites -


56 posted on 12/17/2014 8:41:07 AM PST by az_gila
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

57 posted on 12/17/2014 8:45:29 AM PST by equaviator (There's nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth.)
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To: equaviator

I figured someone would post that...

What I don’t understand is why they stopped at 2. Add 6 or 8 more and you’d really have something.


58 posted on 12/17/2014 8:54:10 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie
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To: wbill

Air Force literally flew the wings off the AD Skyraiders in Vietnam. They inquired about restarting the production line, but the retooling costs and startup were prohibitive.


59 posted on 12/17/2014 8:55:10 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners. And to the NSA trolls, FU)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

60 posted on 12/17/2014 8:57:42 AM PST by equaviator (There's nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth.)
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