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Pentagon Worries That Russia Can Now Outshoot U.S. Stealth Jets
The Daily Beast ^ | 12/04/2014 | Dave Majumdar

Posted on 12/04/2014 3:20:25 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki

High flying and fast, the F-22 Raptor stealth jet is by far the most lethal fighter America has ever built. But the Raptor—and indeed all U.S. fighters—have a potential Achilles’ heel, according to a half-dozen current and former Air Force officials. The F-22’s long range air-to-air missiles might not be able to hit an enemy aircraft, thanks to new enemy radar jamming techniques.

The issue has come to the fore as tensions continue to rise with Russia and a potential conflict between the great powers is once again a possibility—even if a remote one.

“We—the U.S. [Department of Defense]—haven’t been pursuing appropriate methods to counter EA [electronic attack] for years,” a senior Air Force official with extensive experience on the F-22 told The Daily Beast. “So, while we are stealthy, we will have a hard time working our way through the EA to target [an enemy aircraft such as a Russian-built Sukhoi] Su-35s and our missiles will have a hard time killing them.”

The problem is that many potential adversaries such as the Chinese and the Russians have developed advanced digital radio frequency memory (DRFM) jammers. These jammers, which effectively memorize an incoming radar signal and repeat it back to the sender, seriously hamper the performance of friendly radars.

Worse, these new jammers essentially blind the small radars found onboard air-to-air missiles like the Raytheon AIM-120 AMRAAM, which is the primary long-range weapon for all U.S. and most allied fighter planes.

That means it could take several missile shots to kill an enemy fighter, even for an advanced stealth aircraft like the Raptor. “While exact Pk [probability of kill] numbers are classified, let’s just say that I won’t be killing these guys one for one,” the senior Air Force official said. It’s the “same issue” for earlier American fighters like the F-15, F-16, or F/A-18.

Another Air Force official with experience on the stealthy new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter agreed. “AMRAAM’s had some great upgrades over the years, but at the end of the day, it’s old technology and wasn’t really designed with today’s significant EA in mind,” this official said.

Like boxers, every missile has a reach, a range, a limit to how far it can hit. In the not-too-distant future, the AMRAAM might also be out-ranged by new weapons that are being developed around the world. Particularly, Russia is known to be developing an extremely long-range weapon called the K-100 that has far better reach than anything currently in existence.

“While we are stealthy, we will have a hard time targeting Russian Su-35s and our missiles will have a hard time killing them.” The problem is not a new one. The Pentagon has historically always prioritized the development of new fighters over the development new weapons—it’s a uniquely American blind spot. During the 1970s, the then brand new F-15A Eagle carried the same antiquated armament as the Vietnam-era F-4 Phantom II. It wasn’t until the 1990s that the F-15 received a weapon in the form of the AMRAAM that could take full advantage of its abilities. The same applies to short-range weapons—it wasn’t until the early 2000s with the introduction of the AIM-9X that the U.S. had a dogfighting weapon that could match or better the Russian R-73 Archer missile.

The Air Force officials all said that some of the American missiles would get through during a fight—there is no question of that—but it would take a lot more weapons than anyone ever expected. The problem is that fighter aircraft don’t carry that many missiles.

The Raptor carries six AMRAAMs and two shorter range AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles inside its weapons bays. At the moment, the F-35 carries only four AMRAAM missiles inside its weapons bays, but that might be expanded to six in the future. Older fighters like the Boeing F-15 Eagle carry no more than eight missiles—while the F-16 usually carries no more than six weapons.

That means that if a fighter has to fire—for instance—three missiles to kill a single enemy fighter, the Pentagon is facing a serious problem.

“Getting a first shot is one thing,” said a former Air Force fighter pilot with extensive experience with Russian weapons. “Needing another shot when you have expended your load is another when your force structure is limited in terms of the number of platforms available for a given operation.”

There are some potential solutions, but all of them mean spending more money to develop new missiles. former Air Force intelligence chief Lt. Gen. Dave Deptula said it’s “critical” that the U.S. and its allied move “air-to-air weapons into a future where they can effectively deal with adversary electronic attack.”

One relatively simple fix would be to develop a missile that picks out its targets using radars with a completely different frequency band. Current fighter radars and missiles operate on what is called the X-band, but they don’t necessarily have to. “Getting out of X band is on option,” said one senior Air Force official.

The Pentagon could also develop a new missile that combines multiple types of sensors such as infrared and radar into the same weapon—which has been attempted without much success in the past.

Right now, the Defense Department—lead by the Navy—is working to increase the range of the AIM-9X version of the Sidewinder by 60 percent to give the Pentagon’s fighter fleet some sort of counter to the jamming problem. But even with the extended reach, the modified Sidewinder won’t have anywhere close to the range of an AMRAAM.

The other option is to stuff fighters like the F-22 and F-35 with more missiles that are smaller. Lockheed Martin, for example, is developing a small long-range air-to-air missile called the “Cuda” that could double or triple the number of weapons carried by either U.S. stealth fighter. “Look to a new generation of U.S. air-to-air missiles, like Cuda, to neutralize any potential numerical advantage,” one senior industry official said.

The industry official said that despite the small size, new weapons like the Cuda can offer extremely impressive range because they don’t have an explosive warhead—they just run into the target and destroy it with sheer kinetic energy.

But the senior Air Force official expressed deep skepticism that such a weapon could be both small and far-reaching. “I doubt you can solve range and the need for a large magazine with the same missile,” he said.

This official added that future weapons would be far better at countering enemy jamming—so much so that future fighters will not need to have the sheer speed and maneuverability of an aircraft like the Raptor. “I think top end speed, super cruise, and acceleration will all decline in importance as weapons advance in range and speed,” he said.

For a military that’s committed hundreds of billions of dollars to such advanced fighters, such developments might not exactly be welcome news.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: aerospace; russia; stealth
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To: sukhoi-30mki
I love these stories for their sobering effect.

We like running with the same attitude and logic that once told US that our fighters don't need a gun any more.

Better to sober up now than on that first day when assumptions and training meet reality.

21 posted on 12/04/2014 6:34:25 AM PST by GBA (Here in the matrix, life is but a dream...with consequences.)
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To: Travis McGee

They are still a few years from production of the systems needed to see and shoot stealth but the days are numbered for stealth.

We have been able to see stealth since at least 1985 that I know of. The Russians picked up on it about 1988 but with the demise of the USSR they stepped back from development until they got back on their financial feet about 8 years ago. They have moved forward with anti-stealth technology and are on the verge of releasing multiple systems, air, sea, and land, that can see and shoot stealth.

Stealth is good stuff and should be used to defeat manpads and other non-sophisticated missiles, but it cannot defeat sophisticated imaging systems. It does reduce typical CW radar signatures and is useful for penetrating Russian airspace for bomb delivery, but gravity bombs are rather stupid when we have ICBM/SLBM delivery capabilities that cost less per warhead and are nearly 100% effective. Those warheads also employ stealth and other countermeasures like decoys and chaff, which makes them far better than aircraft at delivering nuclear warheads.


22 posted on 12/04/2014 7:47:41 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: Bobalu

“We have lots of both”

So do they and many of theirs are over here learning better manufacturing techniques. I have been shocked at how many Russians have had access to what I would consider national secrets.


23 posted on 12/04/2014 7:48:52 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

“Pretty much every program now is decided by its clout in Congress and the number of jobs it creates...resulting in an over-expensive and inefficient industry.”

Which is why any smaller budgeted country can compete with us. We don’t make good use of what we spend.


24 posted on 12/04/2014 7:52:01 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: CodeToad

Its about the will—if the left talks the youth into thinking America is evil and should be punished for Slavery, Global Warming, and starvation, who will fight? Rome lost because the Romans didn’t believe in the ideals of Rome anymore. Same could happen to the west.


25 posted on 12/04/2014 7:55:22 AM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll Onward! Ride to the sound of the guns!)
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To: 11th Commandment
I recall rotating frequency was an effective tool when the Enterprise was fighting the Borg!

Wait, that already happened?

26 posted on 12/04/2014 7:56:27 AM PST by McGruff (If you like your current Democracy you can keep it. Period.)
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To: The Antiyuppie

BP remains alive in various forms, but why go into the intake of an aircraft when a projectile merely smokes right through it and obliterates the target? It has enough force to push a tank right into a hole in the sand. An aircraft turns into confetti with such a projectile.

Space-based kinetic weapons are mind blowing.


27 posted on 12/04/2014 7:58:42 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

“Its about the will”

You bet. Turning every little kid into a liberal onesie wearing pacifist is their goal. Can’t dominate strong minds.


28 posted on 12/04/2014 7:59:43 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: puppypusher

“The U.S. Military and our Aerospace industry have known about stealth technology “

Truth be told, the Russians wrote the book, literally in 1964, that we used to create our first stealth projects. Our aircraft designers thought the calculations the Russians provided were way off, but it turned out they were dead on.

Politics kept the Soviets from using their own math to produce stealth aircraft. Once they discovered we were producing stealth it took them a few years to understand we were using their book, which they then used to predict our stealth outcomes.


29 posted on 12/04/2014 8:05:07 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: rbg81
We spend a lot more $$, but a lot of that is personnel costs. Defense is clearly not a priority for this administration.

By the time Obama is finished, our fighters will be shooting bean bags.

30 posted on 12/04/2014 8:18:08 AM PST by Know et al (Keep on Freepin'!!!)
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To: CincyRichieRich

The leakers are leaking to tell the others that we know they know we have discovered the problem? Maybe there is an answer already and it is counter-ignorance?


31 posted on 12/04/2014 8:53:05 AM PST by huldah1776
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To: huldah1776; CincyRichieRich

Plus some national defense worries have to be released to the public to win political support in the battle for defense dollars.


32 posted on 12/04/2014 9:14:15 AM PST by ansel12
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To: CodeToad

~Stealth is good stuff and should be used to defeat manpads and other non-sophisticated missiles~

Last time I’ve check manpad missiles aren’t radar-guided. F-35 is actually a better targets for most manpads than helicopter, and we all know manpads are pretty much effective against helicopters.


33 posted on 12/04/2014 10:41:19 AM PST by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix

Stealth isn’t just about radar.


34 posted on 12/05/2014 6:37:22 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: CodeToad

Do you have any background in aa-warfare?


35 posted on 12/05/2014 8:05:06 AM PST by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix

“Do you have any background in aa-warfare?”

Why do you want to know?


36 posted on 12/05/2014 8:06:41 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: CodeToad

Just curious. Inexpensive airspace denial to opposing air forces is actually an integral part of future hybrid warfare. I want to learn your opinion and that is all.


37 posted on 12/05/2014 8:30:36 AM PST by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix

“airspace denial to opposing air forces is actually an integral part of future hybrid warfare.”

“hybrid”? It has always been a part of warfare since airplanes were invented and used in warfare.


38 posted on 12/05/2014 8:46:46 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: CodeToad

You missed my point. Potent aa weapons are out of control now and pretty much available to non-government players these days.


39 posted on 12/05/2014 4:09:22 PM PST by wetphoenix
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To: saintgermaine

Why plural?


40 posted on 12/05/2014 4:21:58 PM PST by krunkygirl (force multiplier in effect...)
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