DONNNNATE
Posted on 10/27/2014 9:05:45 AM PDT by Enlightened1
Droplet spread happens when germs traveling inside droplets that are coughed or sneezed from a sick person enter the eyes, nose, or mouth of another person. Droplets travel short distances, less than 3 feet (1 meter) from one person to another.
A person might also get infected by touching a surface or object that has germs on it and then touching their mouth or nose.
***
Clean and disinfect commonly touched surfaces like doorknobs, faucet handles, and toys, since the Ebola virus may live on surfaces for up to several hours.
(Excerpt) Read more at cdc.gov ...
First they said it’s not airborne. Now only for 3 feet.
I don’t want to get into a long semantic analysis of how best to describe their mentality, but the word “truthful” isn’t going to ever come up in any such discussion.
Can anyone find this supposed quote on the DOD’s DTRA site?
“”Ebola is aerostable in an enclosed controlled system in the dark and can survive for long periods in different liquid media”
No. I searched the site using their own search. I searched it using google, restricted to their site. I searched their press releases. I searched the news in general in case they did a press release without getting it on their website yet. Sound like BS.
“Ebola is aerostable in an enclosed controlled system in the dark”
What does that even mean? Aerostable isn’t in any dictionary I looked at. If you had an enclosed box and you deliberately misted ebola infected water in it, the virus would be airborne for a while and no doubt would be stable. So freaking what? Ebola could be made into a weapon easily. No great science needed.
“can survive for long periods in different liquid media”
Of course
FOX just said that poor tortured girl had no TV...
Someone should post that gif of those stick figures running around screaming OH NOES!!! But really, that is terrible..no television..damn..no wonder MSNBC is so devastated, they lost 1 out of 2 viewers..now they only have 1 left :( so sad..WOW this poor nurse, a true portrait of courage..stand aside Malala, this nurse just beat you
Recent MIT study that turns the CDC 3 foot droplet rule on its head.
With all the confusion over the terms ‘airborne’ and ‘aerosal’ and these new findings a new term needs to be applied.
Virally Loaded Snot Spread Transmission or
VL-SST
I suggest everyone read the article, it’s in English, as well as the cited fomite article.
Why?
Because when the VL-SST lands it becomes a fomite and that’s the lurking direct contact with EVD.
(Snip)
...Indeed, the study finds, the smaller droplets that emerge in a cough or sneeze may travel five to 200 times further than they would if those droplets simply moved as groups of unconnected particles — which is what previous estimates had assumed. The tendency of these droplets to stay airborne, resuspended by gas clouds, means that ventilation systems may be more prone to transmitting potentially infectious particles than had been suspected.... (Go to MIT article for details and high speed video of a sneeze )
The researchers used high-speed imaging of coughs and sneezes, as well as laboratory simulations and mathematical modeling, to produce a new analysis of coughs and sneezes from a fluid-mechanics perspective. Their conclusions upend some prior thinking on the subject. For instance: Researchers had previously assumed that larger mucus droplets fly farther than smaller ones, because they have more momentum, classically defined as mass times velocity.
That would be true if the trajectory of each droplet were unconnected to those around it. But close observations show this is not the case; the interactions of the droplets with the gas cloud make all the difference in their trajectories. Indeed, the cough or sneeze resembles, say, a puff emerging from a smokestack.
“If you ignored the presence of the gas cloud, your first guess would be that larger drops go farther than the smaller ones, and travel at most a couple of meters,” Bush says. “But by elucidating the dynamics of the gas cloud, we have shown that there’s a circulation within the cloud — the smaller drops can be swept around and resuspended by the eddies within a cloud, and so settle more slowly. Basically, small drops can be carried a great distance by this gas cloud while the larger drops fall out. So you have a reversal in the dependence of range on size.”
High-speed imaging has helped MIT researchers determine that some droplets from coughs and sneezes may carry much farther than previous studies had estimated.
Video courtesy of the researchers
Specifically, the study finds that droplets 100 micrometers — or millionths of a meter — in diameter travel five times farther than previously estimated, while droplets 10 micrometers in diameter travel 200 times farther. Droplets less than 50 micrometers in size can frequently remain airborne long enough to reach ceiling ventilation units....(Cont linked article)
:::::::
Okay, so the turbulet cloud of a sneeze finally settles and lands on some surface and being virally loaded becomes a fomite.
And this is another new research discovery.
::::::::
Long form source scientific link:
http://aem.asm.org/content/73/6/1687.long
Short UK Mail link:
Briefly, the major points regarding spread of viruses via fomites are:
The study found between 40 and 60 per cent of office contaminated in two hours
Pushing buttons in lifts and touching phones spread infection quickest
Disinfectant wipes and regularly washing hands is best way to kill germs
Infections can spread from an office door handle to half the workforce in just two hours, new research has found.
Using tracer viruses, a study found as much as 60 per cent of workers in the building carried the bug planted after 120 minutes....
So there it is.
Thanks for the link. The document refers to this study. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2672.2010.04778.x/full
The aerostable test was measuring decay rate in MINUTES. It is not clear but if the deliberate carefully created aerosolization was done the same way they did the filovirus earlier it was aerosolized with tissue culture, and they definitely also included Bacillus atrophaeus spores. So whatever any fearmonger might tell you, when the try their best to weaponize it, it still only has a decay rate measured in minutes.
The life in liquid test also included tissue cells, necessary for replication and life. And the dry surface test were at very cold temperatures.
None of these have any practical value unless you are trying to weaponize the virus. Or perhaps if you are directly exposed to cell rich liquids like vomit, on cold surfaces.
We all knew this intuitively.
IF you could only catch Ebola from fluid to fluid contact, they wouldn’t require bio-safety level 4 suits.
The CDC is as inept as any other government entity. Up until we actually had a case of Ebola in the wild and health care workers got sick, the CDC was recommending only droplet and contact precautions. The same isolation as influenza and norovirus. And we know how well that works for norovirus
Their recommendations change daily, they are reacting and behind in every way. It is the grace of God not the CDC to thank for the low infection rate so far in this country.
A study about airborne viruses. And the great distances mentioned were 60cm and ten feet.
“BTW Hydrogen Peroxide will safely sanitize fabrics, and soft absorbent surfaces. Drying might take a while, but no big deal.
You can also fumigate with it to get into nooks and crannies. It has been studied and proven an effective sanitizer.”
Except it is forbidden to use these chemicals on aircraft. They are not approved.
There are hundreds of miles of wiring behind those nice plastic wall panels and overhead compartments. Under the floors as well. Strong chemicals cause copper corrosion and circuit failure. ANY product intended for use on an aircraft must be approved by both the manufacturer of the aircraft and the faa.
You can totally clean an aircraft by overhauling it. It requires totally stripping the interior to th bare exterior skin, then replacing everything with new or overhauled parts. Cost is in the tens of thousands of dollars and 3 to 4 weeks down time on the aircraft.
What it says is you CAN CONTRACT ebola without direct, physical contact. Contagion spread through the AIR.
HELLO!
I'm not saying it wouldn't good for people to know the difference. I'm saying that it's not realistic to expect that of them. And because it's not realistic, it's reasonable (i.e., based on reason) to expect epidemiologists to give out their information in ways that the masses will understand. To the average person, "airborne" means you can get it by someone sneezing or coughing. And that's what the CDC says can happen. It's not realistic for the subtlety of true airborne vs. droplets to enter into the masses' understanding. What they need to know is that if a person who has Ebola sneezes in their close proximity--is it really only 3 feet?--then they can get infected. That's the information that's going to help them make the kinds of decisions they will need to make.
I wouldn’t go in your theoretical room because I understand about droplets and I understand that an enclosed space where someone is in the final spew is a very hot zone.
Then would you be willing to sit in a room for the first 8 hours of fever, without any sort of mask, 4 feet away--1 foot further than the official 3 foot limit--from a patient who was known to have been in contact with the blood of an Ebola patient 8-10 days ago? I would not. And I'm not being irrational to come to that determination. BTW, that "room" could be an emergency department, or a bus, or an airplane, or a waiting room at the local doc-in-a-box. So it's not only doctors and nurses who would be in that position.
But it’s important to understand her situation and your situation are different.
I'm not concerned about my situation. I'm concerned about hers.
And of course there probably won’t even be any pediatric ebola cases in your state, all the more reason to not get so worked up.
On the contrary, if there are any pediatric Ebola cases in the U.S., then my state is high on the list of probable states in which it would occur.
And finally, when it comes to making personal decisions, I think it makes sense to consider the source of any information, and what their interests might be. Assuming no nefarious motivations, the CDC has two legitimate competing interests. On one hand they want to get ahead of this thing, and on the other hand they don't want to cause panic. The first interest argues for publicizing the facts. The second for minimizing them. Being human, they will not always get it right. But what that tells me is that it just may be a little more communicable than they're letting on.
And then if you want to bring in nefarious motivations, then there are all sorts of motivations for minimizing the public's understanding. But I'm not going there. Yet. You do have to wonder, though, why Obama is so resistant to a common sense quarantine of people who are known to have been exposed.
@ Prophet2520
Can you not read where they say,
“Droplet spread happens when germs traveling inside droplets that are coughed or sneezed from a sick person enter the eyes, nose, or mouth of another person. Droplets travel short distances, less than 3 feet (1 meter) from one person to another.”
“A person might also get infected by touching a surface or object that has germs on it and then touching their mouth or nose.”
“Clean and disinfect commonly touched surfaces like doorknobs, faucet handles, and toys, since the Ebola virus may live on surfaces for up to several hours.”
How is that NOT airborne?
Definition of Airborne from Dictionary.com
airborne
[air-bawrn, -bohrn]
Examples
Word Origin
adjective
1. carried by the air, as pollen or dust.
2. in flight; aloft: The plane was airborne by six o’clock.
3. Military. (of ground forces) carried in airplanes or gliders: airborne infantry.
4. Aeronautics. (of an aircraft) supported entirely by the atmosphere; flying.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/airborne?s=t
Your dictionary daffynition means bupkis. We are saying the virus can infect others by flying through the air, no touchy-feely needed with the patient.
What part of that do YOU not understand?
Just to help you, we will forever forward call it “Snot borne”, that make you happy?
Where did you pull those numbers from?
The CDC long standing 3 foot droplet rule exceeds your posted 60cm or about 23in.
The new MIT studies prove that it is complex turbulent event that travels substantial farther than previous assumed and that the mixed particle sizes can an do coalesce and re-coalesce.
Take a look at one of the studies photo sequence.
Look it up in the Webster dictionary that. That is the meaning of word.
I know you want to twist the word “Airborne”, but I am giving you the official definition.
How can you say it’s not “Airborne” when it travels THROUGH THE AIR?
Just how is Ebola spreading so fast in Africa? If it so hard to catch what are they doing to spread it.
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