houston lgbt mayor has every legal right to prosecute christian churches for political activity

Patton@Bastogne | 2014-10-15 | Patton@Bastogne

[CodeToad]

The Houston government is attempting to establish a religion whereby a person must believe as they do.

The Houston government is also squashing freedom of religion.

The Houston government is now claiming any item of religion it decides to demand people believe in is now a government matter and not one of religion.

[CodeToad]

“It is a relatively new (50 years?) law that did not exist long ago.”

Well, no dug! The 16th Amendment stole badly needed money from churches. Then the federal goobermint gives churches a gun to their head: Do as we tell you or we continue to take the money.

[ForYourChildren]

BKMK

great thread on 501c3 and implications!

[ForYourChildren]

They came into our church about 3 times in the last 5 years. Local activists lesbians.

[Maelstorm]

The government has no dominion over religious freedom period. The idea that nonprofit status disappears because a pastor speaks out on political issues is crazy and tyrannical.

[antidisestablishment]

I would like to see every church and synagogue do the same. I would include mosques, but they are exempt from Federal regulations—apparently including those against inciting murder and revolt.

[Patton@Bastogne]

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The government has no dominion over religious freedom period.
The idea that nonprofit status disappears because a pastor speaks out on political issues is crazy and tyrannical.


Maelstorm,


You're correct, insofar as this scenario is (falsely) described by deceptive groups like Jay Sekulow and the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF).


May I present an analogy to what the "truth" is.


You are a STAR athelete who's a member of the New York Rednecks baseball team.

You had to APPLY for your position with the New York Rednecks. You sought after them because the New York Rednecks had sometime YOU wanted DESPERATELY:

Money, "Beyond the Dreams of Avarice" (Hans Solo, Star Wars).

Millions and millions of dollars, but ONLY if You agreed to VOLUNTARILY sign for the New York Rednecks.

The Rednecks said "yes" to your "voluntary" request to join the team.

Condition-1 : Be a useful tool to help the New York Rednecks win the World Series.

Condition-2 : NEVER, NEVER criticize the New York Rednecks, their coach, their owner, their sponsors, their players. EVER.

Violating either of these "contractual conditions" would result in Your FINANCIAL PAYMENTS being canceled.

Maelstorm (nothing personal here) ...

YOU wanted that MONEY so BADLY (to buy bibles for Christian missionaries in China), that you ...

VOLUNTARILY signed the CONTRACT with the New York Rednecks.


Years go by, and SUDDENLY you discover that the New York Rednecks are doing VERY BAD THINGS.

Your Christian conscience COMPELLS you to speak out.

However, your attorney warns you that IF you speak-out about these evils, you are violating Condition-2 of your VOLUNTARY "employment contract" with the New York Rednecks baseball team.

Sadly, you decide NOT to criticize the New York Rednecks ...

because you DESPERATELY NEED that MONEY to buy bibles for the Christian Missionaries in China.

Now ... in the midst of your conflicted decision, Jesus Christ shows up for a chat.

Jesus Christ advises "Just Do the Right Thing, don't worry about the Money."

Jesus Christ promises to handle everything (financially), and you'll be "right as rain".

But like all of us (including that Patton@Bastogne guy at Free Republic) ...

you SECRETLY DOUBT that Jesus Christ can make the deal work.

So ... in the end ... you KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT about the evil New York Rednecks ...

and continue spending your ten-million salary on buying bibles for the Christian missionaries in China.


============================================


Maelstorm ... that's EXACTLY where America's tax-exempt Christian churches are today in 2014.


Maelstorm ... church tax-exempt status is a "Federal Contract" ... all VOLUNTARY

Maelstorm ... church tax-exempt status puts your church on the FEDERAL PAYROLL ... vis-a-via "income tax deductions (gifts) for your congregation"

Maelstorm ... the "contract" DEMANDS that your church NOT ENDORSE CANDIDATES for public office (i.e. criticize Uncle Sam)

Maelstorm ... the "contract" DEMANDS that your church NOT ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE LEGISLATION (i.e. change Uncle Sam's evil ways)

Maelstorm ... if your church VIOLATES EITHER of THESE TWO RULES ...

then the "Federal Contract" you FREELY WANTED says that Uncle Sam can "properly" sue you in Court ... and Win.




Maelstorm ... IRS 501-C3 is a "Covenant" just as binding and legal as the "Covenant" THE LORD made with Abraham.

So ... what does Christ's American Christian Church do in 2014 ?

Keep Uncle Sam's MONEY ... and Shut-The-Heck-Up ...

or "SPEAK GOD'S TRUTH without RESERVATION" ...

and TRUST Jesus Christ for the money needed to buy all those bibles for the Christian missionaries to China ?




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[usconservative]

The problem with your argument is that discussing homosexuality in the context of God's law within the Church IS NOT POLITICAL SPEECH, despite some left-wing nutjobs attempts to make it such.

Any Church who receives a subpoena should refuse to comply and force the issue to the Supreme Court.

Now, to your larger point about Churches and POLITICAL speech, as in endorsing candidates, speaking out against others behind the pulpit I'm in FULL AGREEMENT with you that any church who wishes to do so should jettison their tax exempt status and have at it! (I've held that position for decades, btw. Silencing the churches via tax exempt status has done alot of damage to morality in this country, IMO.)

[CrosscutSaw]

The government cannot tax the exercise of religious freedom. That is why churches are tax exempt.

A church is a congregation of believers who gather together to worship and contribute from their already taxed income to pay for their expenses they incur as a church.

Do you really want the government to be able to tax Christians for exercising their right of freedom of religion?

[CrosscutSaw]

The fallacy in this thinking is that the government is “giving” a tax exemption. . .as opposed to the reality that the Federal government has no jurisdiction over the “free exercise” of religion.

Thank you.

[CrosscutSaw]

Keep Uncle Sam's MONEY ... and Shut-The-Heck-Up ...

It's NOT Uncle Sam's money!

[rolling_stone]

irs=feds
subpoenas- state
even with your wacko theory the state or city does not have jurisdiction

[Patton@Bastogne]

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You're correct, Houston does NOT have the legal authority to enforce IRS 501-C3.

Post-88 explains that, and the "master plan" that I believe Houston's Mayor has charted.


Undoubtedly, the Houston Mayor's strategic plan is to "nuke" these churches, as follows:

1) get the Houston City Council to pass LGBT legislation

2) use that issue as "a baited trap" to spark church opposition

3) gather "solid evidence" against all these churches (spys, sermons, etc)

4) ask the IRS to prosecute these churches

5) the IRS will decline (the Mayor knows this)

6) Mayor files lawsuit (targeted to the SCOTUS) for strict IRS enforcement

7) SCOTUS agrees with IRS 501-C3 "federal contactor status" ... as they did with Bob Jones University in 1973

8) Checkmate.


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[Albion Wilde]

It’s good to know what to look out for. I had been picturing men in suits.

[ForYourChildren]

yep, everything you have said so far is correct!

[loboinok]

mark

[ForYourChildren]

Just look for flannel in church. HA.

[Maelstorm]

Religious freedom should not be coerced and I’d extend that to any and all nonprofit organizations. We need to get the state out of non profit organizations altogether why it has not been done to this point is more a matter of the state fear of independent power. Individuals paid by those organizations pay taxes and provided that is the case the organization which is non profit should not be considered out of the domain of state taxation provided it is not doing things that are illegal and regardless of the nature of the statutes the enforcement as such is directly in conflict with the first amendment protection of religious freedom and freedom of speech. Just as one can not voluntarily enter a contract under the law as a slave a person can not voluntarily give up their first amendment rights. Churches should be able to endorse candidates directly in accordance with their religious beliefs and take political actions in accordance with their beliefs. The idea that some how churches and non profits should be silenced or intimidated and have the records of their expression of speech audited by the state is ludicrous. The only place that the state has any place in non profits or any business for that matter is in matters of corruption or direct danger to members of the organization or the public. It is pernicious idea that came about during the Lyndon B. Johnson administration and it should be challenged until it is totally destroyed.

[Jaded]

She certainly has some big shiny brass ones.

[Patton@Bastogne]

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Yes ... and despite Ted Cruz's "magnificent" throw-down ... this is only Round One ...

She'll be back like a vengeance.


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