Posted on 09/18/2014 10:41:33 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows
DEVELOPING: Scottish voters have rejected independence and decided that Scotland will remain part of the United Kingdom.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Do you know why they won't be an independent country? Because they voted against it.
With all that impressive history in 307, 45.7 percent still voted for independence.
Here is the headline we are posting under...
Scots reject independence in historic voteJust let that sink in, if possible.
Thank you Tredegar. I had posted many links most in support of Yes. I don’t like to argue about this, what is done is done. I much rather look now to midterm elections. Have a nice day.
LOL!
LOL!
Texas doesn't need the same number of troops, we could get by with less and build up local militias as an emergency reserve. If Texas were to join NATO, then that is one more layer of security.
“If the nation breaks up, we essentially withdraw from being a global power on the scale we have been.”
Not necessarily, but we shouldn't HAVE to be a global power. I'm more concerned about personal liberty and financial freedom than I am about the prestige of my country.
“Even Liberal states add something to the mix.”
Yeah, like Socialism, debt, Constitution shredding, etc.
“I’ve said this to others. We need to recapture lost territory. We shouldn’t simply gift it to the Left.”
At this point, recapturing lost territory would only be accomplished by civil war and deportations. I would rather avoid that nastiness with an amicable split. Besides, there is little to no economic value left in taking liberal strongholds.
“Ronald Reagan appealed to Democrats and some voted for him. You might be surprised how fast things can turn around when we fight for it.”
Different time, in the early 80’s the Dems were not yet FULLY Socialist. Now, in order to appeal to the Socialists we would have to become Socialist, no thanks. The supposed “Reagan Revolution” lasted approximately eight years before collapsing, BFD. Its the status quo that is killing us. Trying to fix this country with Socialists f@#$ing it up is like trying to run a marathon with a gangrenous leg.
There’s probably a lot more connected meaning to that than I am getting. I miss the point. If you’d like to explain, I’d like to respond on point.
Is there a new time limit on the union?
IOW...how long before independence can be put to another vote?
Can people sit back and breathe for a while, or will there be continuing tension?
No time limit, we could be in the UK for another 307 yrs.
There will only be a new vote IF the SNP wins by a majority the Scottish elections in 2016 and passes another bill. Or any Scots election. IMO the SNP/YES hit its high water mark in 2014, I think the Scots electorate will start to vote Labour or Tory or Lib Dem or even UKIP or Greens, if only that they don’t have to go through this again. I think the Scottish people genuinely don’t want another referendum for some time, maybe 10-20 yrs or more.
It will come around again, and who knows what we will feel then. Maybe even I might think the UK not worth saving. If I was to vote YES, it would have to be a far more conservative Scotland. Or at least a centrist Scotland, hell even a soft centre-leftist Scotland would be just about acceptable. NOT the hardleftist ideas I have just rejected.
The potential hardleftism of a ‘new’ Scotland was a factor in my vote.
Pantex is the nuclear weapons construction and maintenance facility in Texas. It is the *only* place in all of North America where nuclear weapons are manufactured, maintained or dismantled.
Thanks Spktyr. I wasn’t aware of that. For some reason I thought there was a facility back in Kentucky or some such. Did they move it in recent years? That is interesting.]
Do you think the U. S. would leave that facility in tact if Texas broke away?
Am I wrong in believing there are about four main targets in Texas, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, and Austin?
That’s a pretty tough defense situation if nukes are part of the game.
Granted an SDI could remedy part of it, but it only takes one out of a group to get through, and it’ll ruin your whole day.
Considering that the current Administration is shortsightedly set against nuclear weapons? I’m sure they’d be happy to be rid of it and just let the remaining US nuclear arsenal decay.
The only defense would be MAD, but then again if you tell everyone that invasion or attacks on your country will be met by nuclear force, nobody is going to be particularly interested in attacking you.
Yes, who knows what that idiot would do. Agreed.
The other states do have an interest, but the decision to secede or not belongs entirely to Texans.
“I live in California. It's a state that is tipped in favor of the Left. Sadly, it is because of white flight. You see, I've seen the damage done by abandonment.”
If California is leaning left because of “white flight” then why are those same Californians in-exile corrupting my state with Socialist policies? Could it be they left California only because the real estate market is ridiculously expensive? If you are defending a position you cannot hold, then you must fall back to a stronghold. Texas, and some other red states, are the stronghold.
“If California had a charismatic Conservative with money, he would would soon be our governor. With proper leadership, our Legislature would change as well.”
Maybe, but you are describing a unicorn.
“Abandoning major portions of this nation is very destructive to the Republic we supposedly love.”
By the same token, keeping corrupt and socialist portions IN this country is very destructive. However, forcing someone out of a club is far more messy than allowing others to leave of their own accord.
“I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to put our nation's security in the hands of NATO. The people of the Ukraine could explain that better than I can. Although it isn't a member currently, it does make it clear that NATO isn't really going to launch a massive campaign to defend Europe. It has just decided to send 5,000 troops to the region to convince Russia it means business. That's actually rather sad.”
Maybe NATO has only sent a small force because they know Vlad is full of shite? His army is a cold and pale shadow of its former Soviet glory, his best troops cant even handle the Ukrainians! Anyway, American security wouldn't be affected much by Texan secession, the US military would only be slightly smaller.
“Think about what you just said. Without the armed forces of the unified United States of America, you would have a very small comparative military. As one of the last refuges of Conservatism, the whole nation would not back your play. It would have allowed our current military to be essentially destroyed.”
You see, other red states could pull the secession card too. What if the other red states (minus Texas) form their own Union? This new Union would take with it most of the military, treasury, and resources. Which would leave the blue states with virtually nothing. Sometimes tough measures are called for. Living as a free man matters more than the demonym attached to my name, as it should for everybody here.
“Who protects the sea lanes then? How does Texas conduct commerce once the sea lanes are dominated by hostile nations?”
The US Navy should remain mostly intact whether Texas secedes or if a new Union is formed (which would inherit most of the Navy). What hostile nations are going to dominate the sea lanes? The rust-bucket fleets of Russia and China? The future of naval defense is in Space, a “rod from God” could destroy a fleet in seconds.
“Israel will be vulnerable to global attack. Texas won't be able to help. The U. S. will have been neutered.”
Pure speculation, Israel can handle themselves and both Texas and a new Union could send help if it were required.
“When that happens, another nation will fill the void. China, Russia, new players would jump in. Yes, Texas could protect it's Southern coast for a while. What happens when the rest of the United States is conquered due to Leftist intransagence?”
Russia is being consumed within by a growing Muslim population, and China has a huge population of people hungering for the fruits of capitalism. Small countries can play big roles if needed, Britain is a prime example (back during their imperial days). An independent Texas should have fully secured borders, and a fully Socialist USA will be too busy starving to attack Texas. Liberty must have a secure bastion before any counter-attack is possible.
“Do you think a massive foreign land force could be repelled on Texas other borders? Who would stop them?”
Yes, its not that hard. You simply kill the guys trying to invade until they decide to stop. With more guns than citizens, one does not simply invade Texas. A Texan military and multiple supporting militias will suffice.
“You see, when you set up Texas to be the Conservative refuge, one thing will certainly happen. Many Conservatives will think it's a swell idea to move there. You folks will be happy to have them.”
The people that think they can simply migrate here AFTER a referendum are sorely mistaken. The time for that would be BEFORE a referendum so that they could help us secede. I think an independent Texas should be very selective about who migrates here.
“I still believe there is only so much Texas could do against the full weight of the remaining U. S. Military. They would have nukes. Texas might have a few at best. It might have those stripped away if it ceceeded.”
The US Military isn't stupid enough to invade Texas. Some of those nukes are paid for by Texans, which means we could inherit our share. Regardless, nuclear weapons don't mean much anymore. No civilized nation want to be the first ones to drop the bomb, so we are essentially seeing a nuclear Mexican standoff. If a future conventional war breaks out, my prediction is that it will stay mostly, if not entirely conventional.
“Texas cecession opens a whole can of worms. I think it is ill advised.”
The US is already a can of worms, the decision to stay or go lies solely with Texans.
“I see China becoming a serious threat against the whole United States in upcoming decades. Do you think I break-away Texas would be safe? If you do, I think you're refusing to consider reality.”
Well, considering that Texas is nowhere near the Pacific Ocean, and does not share a land border with China, I predict that Texas will be safe from the Chinese hordes. If China is a threat to anybody, its Taiwan, Japan, and Russia. I think Asia will keep China pretty busy for awhile, assuming that Communist China survives the century.
“No, they contribute to the national treasury. While we do have a massive federal debt, I am led to understand that it isn't out of line with our post WWII debt. If we turn things around economically, that debt can go down.”
Yeah, North Korea has a GDP too, but that doesn't make them a valuable addition to anyone’s economy. One-hundred Trillion dollars (and counting) cannot be paid off in our lifetime, and we at least got something positive out of WWII! If Texas secedes, at worst we only inherit a small fraction of the Federal debt.
“We need the full income of the National Treasury to maintain our military. No way should we abandon the nation to the Left. That would be a massive mistake, with global implications.”
No one is saying that power be abandoned to the Left. Rather, (in business parlance) I'm saying that Texas and other red states can start their own firms and bring all their clients with them. Then the Official USA firm can wither on the vine while the new firms prosper and dominate the market.
“Do you believe we have had a Ronald Reagan on the National Stage since his terms in office? I know you don't. The fact is, we don't loft true Conservatives and then lay off the fact the nation is going down hill on the idea a Reagan couldn't get elected. How does that make sense? How can we blame the change of the nation for there not being another President Reagan (ideologically), when we don't give them the opportunity?”
I'm not real sure what it is you are trying to say here.
“The first battle we have to face isn't Texas ceceeding. It's taking over the Republican Party leadership, and getting down to business”
Good luck with that
“Texas is a great place. I salute the Texans. Texas cannot do it alone. Sooner or later it becomes Texas against the world. That's not a game Texas can win, I don't care how great it is.”
But you think the USA can do it alone? Just because Patriots say that America is exceptional doesn't make it so. The Union is just as vulnerable as anybody. Know what I say? Screw the World! I don't care about the rest of the planet thinks, nor do I care about Massachusetts. My home is the only place that matters to me.
You take care as well.
Thanks for the info.
I was hoping it was like Brigadoon....comes around once a hundred years.
Thank you for your additional comments. You credit me for describing a unicorn, one person.
I credit you with describing a herd of them.
I appreciate the comments.
A herd? How so?
I believe that you are also kind of shooting at unicorns.
I don’t believe you fully realize the ramifications of what you support coming true.
Believe me, I realize fully what independence means. The political status quo of the last century has been intolerable. American rights have been stripped, American property has been confiscated, and the Constitution has been shredded. America betrayed itself long ego, its just now that some are starting to see that. If Texas secedes, we wont be abandoning America, we will become what America was always supposed to be! As Franklin said “where ever there is liberty, there is my country”.
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