Holocaust Gas Chambers At Sobibor Death Camp Discovered

Israel News Agency ^ | September 17, 2014 | Joel Leyden

[Praxeologue]

So, in your estimation, how were the killings carried out?

[Still Thinking]

That’s interesting. My comment was aimed at Holocaust denial on general rather than gas chambers in particular.

[Irish Eyes]

You might be interested in some reading

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/biglie.html

[BereanBrain]

Poison Gas Not Technically Possible?

See this link -http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/auschwitz/cyanide/cyanide.001

You see, the Nazis were fanatic about documentation. and they left plenty of it telling how/when/why/how many/how efficient their various methods of destroying life were.

BTW, they killed Slavs, Jews, Poles, and ANYBODY they considered not “good stock”.

They had a procedure they developed to use gas. It’s an indisputable fact.

You sir, are on the slippery slope of denial.

[Talisker]

Kennard: So, in your estimation, how were the killings carried out?

Irish Eyes: You might be interested in some (holocaust denial) reading

BereanBrain: You sir, are on the slippery slope of denial.

Still Thinking: That’s interesting. My comment was aimed at Holocaust denial on general rather than gas chambers in particular.

I wrote my post very carefully. Every word counts and addresses all these issues. You all want to start slinging holocaust denial at me, you're flat-out lying about my actual words. I won't go into a defense of each of my specifics, Google is your friend. It's called a complex subject that has heavy political overtones and self-righteous blowhards all over it, and I'm not interested.

But I will say this. I'm Polish, and there's no Polish holocaust memorial in D.C. and I know damn well there's never going to be one - and I know why. Because politically, Jewish holocaust victims count more than Polish holocaust victims, that's why. Not only did Poles die in death camps, they had their country flattened and entire villiges murdered and bulldozed. I don't need lectures on the evils of Nazism by people who want the Jews deaths to count more than anyone elses - they don't. And I'm not convinced, after a lot of reading, that poison gas was used to any statistically significant degree in the camps, nor that the actual camp structures evidence its use, at least anywhere near the degree it's claimed.

And it simply wasn't necessary. Starvation, disease, overwork, hangings and shootings were plenty efficient. You don't need anything else - unless you need to make a special group of people seem like they suffered more than anyone else, so that you can argue they deserve their own country.

Even then, I'm not saying that wasn't politically necessary. The USA and Canada and many countries turned down most, if not all Jewish refugees when the Nazis offered them to the world. So without some compelling distinction, I can see the thinking that the Jews would be just as stateless after WWII as they were before it, unless they claimed something dramatic to get world support for the (re)creation of Israel. Not to mention that Israel happens to BE the Jewish homeland in the first place. So there's all that, and it's valid.

But no, I'm not convinced at all that poisoned gas was used to any significant degree in the camps for mass murder purposes, and no, that's not holocaust denial at all. It's a discussion of something that I believe is untrue, unnecessary and - IN FACT - is used by REAL holocaust deniers to prop up the rest of their claims with a factoid. In other words, like in most things, the lie is the problem.

Specific words mean specific things, so stop circling like vultures. You're welcome to contribute critical thinking, but keep your claws in and think through what I'm trying to communicate here. It's not what your knees are jerking towards.

[MacNaughton]

6 It’s here on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQYG5dsFcp8

8 Not the only successful revolt, there was also one at Treblinka.

Thanks for the UTube find (I continue to be amazed with what is available on the internet)! And thanks for the correction regarding Treblinka. In the darkest of times, it is truly amazing at how some find the will to resist.

The only other Nazi death camp revolt I have read about was the 1 at Auschwitz where there were no escapes. Its story was told in 1 of the grimmest films I have ever seen ...

Release dates - October 18, 2002 (2002-10-18) (United States)
Running time = 108 minutes
Country - United States
Language - English

[MacNaughton]

25 But I will say this. I'm Polish, and there's no Polish holocaust memorial in D.C. and I know damn well there's never going to be one - and I know why. Because politically, Jewish holocaust victims count more than Polish holocaust victims, that's why. Not only did Poles die in death camps, they had their country flattened and entire villiges murdered and bulldozed. ...

My neighbor is of Polish descent and a Roman Catholic from Chicago. About 7 years ago he was doing contract work for U.S. Steel (he retired from them) in eastern Europe. One weekend he made the journey to Auschwitz. He said that there are books there with the names of the victims and he found his family surname - Dobrinski. The experience shook him up, and he made a point of sharing his pictures and story with all of his friends.

And in the long list of atrocities during WWII, I still recall the Soviets murdering 20,000 Polish POWs in the Katyn Forest.

[Still Thinking]

Dude! How can I be “slinging Holocaust denial at you” when I was referring to a post I made before you even entered the conversation AND is not even in the tone of what I posted? I’M the one who should be getting hacked off about people reading things into my post that aren’t there. Sheesh!

[Travis McGee]

The libs would all compete to be named as capos.

[Skooz]

bump

[SJackson]

Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

There were a number of escapes, Sobibor being the largest escape, including from POW camps. And obviously the 60 or so survivors who made good their escape survived more than a few weeks.

[dfwgator]

Zyklon-B was first used at Auschwitz on Russian POWs, in tests.

They were so successful, that it was decided to expand the camp and to build the larget crematoria to use it.

[BereanBrain]

You are not convinced for some reason other than facts.

Did you read the lengthy article I posted?

It covers your “technical” concerns, and has interviews with Nazi guards, and testimony from war crimes trials.

In any court in the world (even Germany) it is admitted the Nazis used gas to kill millions.

Facts are stubborn things.

[flaglady47]

“It’s not what your knees are jerking towards.”

Oh, I don’t know about that. Indeed, I don’t know about that. Something smells rotten in Denmark.

[SpaceBar]

At Hartheim Castle and other similar facilities during the early T-4 tests, they used bottled carbon monoxide piped into little “shower” rooms.

[Talisker]

You are not convinced for some reason other than facts. Did you read the lengthy article I posted? It covers your “technical” concerns, and has interviews with Nazi guards, and testimony from war crimes trials. In any court in the world (even Germany) it is admitted the Nazis used gas to kill millions. Facts are stubborn things.

I've read many lengthy articles, including yours. They don't all line up with their "facts" - even yours. And no, your article did not completely address all of my technical concerns. I don't care to debate it - you're convinced, I'm not. It has nothing to do with the reality of the holocaust, just one particular method of killing among many. This is not a monolithic subject - "accept it all or you're a denier." Yet that's what it's become, and to enforce it, a person cannot even ask specific questions nor point out specific discrepencies. I mentioned the political reasons for this, I'm fairly confident they are correct. But I'm not even interested in discussing the evidence right now -that's not my point. My point is that the lie about the gas has now become a method against Israel for Muslims and others to reject the holocaust entirely - to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. That is my actual issue.

[Talisker]

Oh, I don’t know about that. Indeed, I don’t know about that. Something smells rotten in Denmark.

What you smell is your agenda.

And I agree, it stinks.

[HenpeckedCon]

It's a$$holes like you who give a bad name to good FReepers. Here's a quote from SS-Obersturmbahnfuhrer Rudolph Hoess Commandant of Auschwitz.
Höss’ affidavit made at Nuremberg on 5 April 1946 reads:

“ I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This figure represents about 70% or 80% of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries. Included among the executed and burnt were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of Prisoner of War cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens (mostly Jewish) from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944.”

I know, he was probably lying because he wanted a noose around his neck.

[Talisker]

It's a$$holes like you who give a bad name to good FReepers.

Liberals bring foul mouths to Free Republic. They can't help themselves. Then they quote Nazi commanders to support their "truths." They can't help themselves with that, either. Finally, they misuse quotes, like you did. I already accept that some gassing was done with trucks and motor exhaust. I very specifically questioned the poison gas chambers only. That's it. A single mechanism of mass murder, not the fact of the mass murders of the holocaust. And for that, I get your mental vomit, and a quote which very carefully does NOT specify the percentage of "gassing," which could easily just mean the truck exhausts. Also, he says that two and a half million victims were executed BY "gassing and burning." But they didn't burn people alive in the camps - that's how they disposed of the bodies, right? So why didn't he say that those who died from starvation and disease were ALSO burned?

I'll tell you why - because he was a captured Nazi who signed what he was told to sign, and so your reference is meaningless because it makes no sense taken verbatim.

Ultimate here's what you're cursing me over, you collectivist filth-mouth - I am agreeing that million of Jews were murdered in the camps. I am merely disagreeing on the particular method of their murders, and saying that I believe they were killed like all of the rest of the murdered prisoners - through starvation, disease, overwork, hanging and shooting. Isn't that enough?!

Yet THAT is the big bad thing you literally curse me over. So why is it so important that the Jews were killed differently than everyone else? Isn't the killing the important part? Isn't that the heinous crime? Aren't the deaths of the millions of Slovacs - Poles, Ukranians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Czechoslovakians, Turks, and everyone else just as horrific? Weren't their lives just as precious?

Crawl back to the hive and get more instructions.

[eyedigress]

It is proper to keep the Holocaust alive and make sure it never happens again. My Great Uncle just 4 years ago in a reunion in Seattle cried intensely on what was found.

This was my first meeting with him. We are Dutch-Irish by blood. We are all God’s Children by Providence. He told me to never let it happen again. I swore to him I would not let it happen again.