Posted on 09/16/2014 4:21:45 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
Page 2 above shows one of the standard maps of France action. Interesting to note that the southern line that ran from the French coast to Germany has disappeared over night. I wonder how much of a line that really was in the last couple of weeks.
Also meant to note yestarday that I think yesterday’s NYTs was the first in months not to have a war picture or map on the front page (there were huricane picts).
We all knew the Monty/Ike thing was bumpy, but it becomes clear when reading all the inside stuff that Monty was insufferable. He resented Ike being in charge, and went out of his way to cause problems.
Remember, during the Bulge, he started up his crap about a single ground command. And this after he didn’t lift a finger to help Bastogne. Patton saved the day.
Ike should have run Monty’s ass off after Arnhem.
Yes, it is very eye opening to see just how insufferable he was.
Monty was quite the anti-Semite too. In some museum I saw the letter he wrote trying to get the British Army to take Haifa from the Jews after they occupied it in the 1948 war, because the UN plan awarded it to the Arabs. A real piece of work, that guy.
More background; in World War 1, Holland was a bit “leaky” in regard to the blockade. The Germans tried to route imports through Dutch ports. The Brits caught on very quickly, and extended a “quarantine” on Holland. Even though she was neutral, the British determined how much they “needed” in terms of imports, and seized as contraband anything over that.
No wonder they gave the Kaiser sanctuary. On the other hand, in World War 2, you would think the Germans would have maintained the same neutrality, but I guess not.
Ike could have avoided a lot of the Monty troubles after Market-Garden, and particularly during the Bulge if he’d just listened to me.
Bradley’s 12th Army Group should have comprised Hodges’ 1st and Simpson’s 9th Armies, operating north of the Ardennes. This allows Bradley to concentrate his attention there and act as an equal rank counterweight to Monty.
Devers’ 6th Army Group would comprise Patton’s 3rd and Patch’s 7th Armies, and they could have worked together to clear Lorraine and drive into the Saar, instead of fighting disjointed campaigns for divergent objectives.
But Ike was stubborn and wouldn’t listen to me. Because I hadn’t been born yet, I guess.
That Eisenhower tunnel vision, prolonging the war.
Since you've obviously given this careful thought:
(a) How confident are you that this (seemingly obvious now, in the distant aftermath) idea ever even occurred, or was suggested, to Ike?
(b) Assuming he did consider it, are there other considerations besides--that is, in addition to--his dislike of Devers that might have deterred him from adopting the Henkster Hierarchy?
England had to have their hero in Monty. Politically, he HAD to be in the spotlight.
It would be interesting to see what kind of headlines the Times of London was publishing about this time.
I’m not sure if the idea was ever seriously considered. I tell you what. Read this book.
http://www.history.army.mil/html/books/007/7-1/index.html
The answer is in there. Somewhere. My guess is it never occurred to Ike and was never suggested. Devers’ army came up from the south. He was not in “the club” of the generals who came out of Normandy. The United States was way more political than is widely portrayed. There was no way Bradley was going to give up Patton’s army, and Ike probably never considered it.
PS: The official history of Devers’ command, “Riviera to the Rhine,” was the last volume of the official history to be published. That was in 1993, almost 50 years later, and long after all of the principals had gone to the Big Barracks in the Sky. It was so much longer after the other histories had been published it almost seemed as though the Army didn’t want to publish it all.
Not only was Devers treated like the red headed stepchild during the war, he was effectively sentenced to obscurity afterward.
Look at pages 311-316. It looks like a variation of the henkster plan was suggested to Ike in November. By Monty. No wonder it got not no traction.
Thanks. I’ll take a look-see.
Sadly, we are about to begin not one, but two battles wherein we will get our heads handed to us. Besides Market-Garden, we will almost simultaneously begin the Battle of the Hürtgen Forest. General Model, the best defensive general in the Wehrmacht, in ideal defensive terrain, will inflict 33,000 casualties. The battle has been called an Allied “defeat of the first magnitude”.
Notice it says Patton seized Nancy. More like grabbing her by the scruff of the neck.
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