Posted on 09/04/2014 5:10:11 PM PDT by FreeReign
...During NATO's 2008 summit in Bucharest, Romania, the issue was discussed and, after opposition from France and Germany, a decision was made to offer neither Ukraine nor Georgia a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) — essentially a path for Ukraine to receive membership — at that moment. Vague promises of NATO membership in the future were made, but the United States later appeared to drop its support for NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia. Russia's brief war with Georgia in August 2008 helped underscore the decision's importance, but NATO and Ukraine held further talks in December. Again, however, no specific MAP was announced.
Yushchenko seemed despondent after the Bucharest summit. "I am sure that the ball is not on the Ukrainian side of the field, Ukraine has done everything it had to do," the Ukrainian president told the Times of London in November 2008. "We are devoted to this pace. Everything else is an issue of political will of those allies who represent NATO."
Ukraine's hopes of joining NATO finally ended in 2010, when Yushchenko lost the presidential election to Viktor Yanukovych, the man he had helped oust during the Orange Revolution and the man forced out by protests earlier this year...
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
They are, in the same manner that Neville Chamberlain worked for stability with Germany.
Is that Obama's new red line? Really?
Why do you think that Ukraine and Georgia were not permitted to join NATO?
Bet on it. We have been shown to be week and unwilling to hold up our agreements. We had an agreement to protect Ukraine in order for them to disarm. We didn't hold up our treaty. What makes NATO any more of a viable treaty than the one we had with Ukraine?
As far as I was concerned I thought every former Soviet satellite country should have been hustled into NATO as quickly as possible following the Soviet collapse in 1989. We dithered for three decades and the Bear decided they wanted their empire back. They will more than likely achieve the their goals. They have no compunction about mass slaughter.
Russia's Muslim population is 14% and growing very fast.
Putin makes his Muslim population happy by supporting Muslim Iran, supporting Hamas, sending Vostok Battalion Muslims to invade Christian Georgia and Ukraine and disrespecting his wife by having a Muslim mistress.
Gotcha, nothing that you can add except inane cracks.
The Crimea must choose between independence, allying itself with a nation of dubious character but one which at least recognizes the Islamic threat, or allying itself with a group which has been taken over by Islamists. Choosing between the first two options have to be better than choosing option number three.
Most of the old Warsaw pact nations are NATO now.
Germany remembers all to well the wall that divided the two countries, and; many of them recall riding on the river only to have East German patrol boats come with ten yards or so of the imaginary medium/talwig. I walked the main street in Berlin in 1968 before departing for Vietnam. My father was a NATO Rep then. The Germans will never let the Russians on their terrain again. Older Germans still recall some who picked through our garbage cans in 1957 looking for food/anything of value. Many do not know that much of Germany in the cities was still bombed out/damaged in certain areas in the late 50’s. In fact, Germany is taking a tougher stance then Obama.
Germany remembers all to well the wall that divided the two countries, and; many of them recall riding on the river only to have East German patrol boats come with ten yards or so of the imaginary medium/talwig. I walked the main street in Berlin in 1968 before departing for Vietnam. My father was a NATO Rep then. The Germans will never let the Russians on their terrain again. Older Germans still recall some who picked through our garbage cans in 1957 looking for food/anything of value. Many do not know that much of Germany in the cities was still bombed out/damaged in certain areas in the late 50’s. In fact, Germany is taking a tougher stance then Obama.
Ukraine oligarchs sold much of Ukraine weapons inherited from USSR in the last ten years. Asking for U.S. weapons was asking for freebies to resell.
Kiev regime is not capable to use what they have, let alone to use U.S. weapon systems. Jets and choppers destroyed daily, tanks and MLRS left to enemy in the field.
Imagine marketing value for General Dynamics of pictures of smoldering F16s or advancing M1s flying rebel flag.
Not sending weapons to Kiev regime is one of the few reasonable things Odumbo has done. Perhaps there are some sane people left in his environment.
U.S. reneged on agreement not to move NATO eastward. That was the condition of Soviet retreat from Eeast Germany.
During one security conference in Europe Ruskies asked why NATO insists on putting it's bases close to Russian borders. And U.S. general quipped - and why you put your borders close to our bases? It was a joke, but not funny one. It gave Ruskies an insight into mentality of the U.S./NATOs top rank.
It's seems that after losing Cold War Ruskies adopted Western spirit and the West adopted Soviet spirit.
Ruskies have no intention to invade NATO countries but in case NATO attacks them they will use nuclear weapons without hesitation. Because "they put Russian borders too close to NATO bases" Only fool does not see this.
Think of NATO rapid deployment force several brigades strong to fight Russia. What it can do except to bait the bear?
It seems that fools are bent on starting nuclear war. Perhaps that's a part of larger scheme of things smart people could not figure out.
Supporting Hamas? Since when he is part of U.S. administration?
http://conservativetribune.com/obama-funding-hamas/
Even if true, imagine the subtle message sent to 2B Muslims by having a Muslim mistress :-) . The way how you look at it is not the way how they see it.
Your statement seems to be contradictory. The point of not taking Ukraine into NATO is self interest.
While Ukraine has much to be gained from belonging to NATO, NATO has nothing to gain from Ukraine.
For both Russia nad NATO, Ukraine is a geographical buffer that must be crossed for war between troops on the ground.
The whole purpose of the now gone Iron curtain was to provide a geographical buffer to prevent or retard another land invasion. First Napoleon and then Hitler made invasions that could have been thwarted before they ever reached the lands of Mother Russia.
Ruskies coming to Germany in 1945 was return visit to Germany's visit to Russia in 1941. It was a return visit to the home of an uninvited guest.
After murdering 20 million people in USSR (majority of them being ethnic Russians), Germans are still counting their blessings for being alive.
Ruskies will never let the Germans on their terrain either. if that happens, Germany will have no terrain of her own to return to.
That mutual understanding makes Ruskies and Germans solid partners and solid friends.
Once the Soviets collapsed, the NATO powers had every right and every interest in insulating Eastern Europe from of the Worlds worst bad actors. Soviet Russia managed to slaughter tens of million of it's own people along with 7,000,000 million Ukrainians in 1937 alone. They did so in full view of the World. They slaughtered in the Gulags at a rate higher than that of Nazi Germany in the concentration Camps. They just happened to continue for three more decades.
Our ability to increase NATO to the borders of Russia, even to the point of the entire break up of that immoral and evil country was more than justified. Had we had legitimate and competent leadership in the nineties, Russia would be the new Germany, South Korea or Japan. The electorate chose to reward the Democrats for their decades of loosing philosophy because they thought George Bush was an elitist and didn't know what a scanner was.
The fact is that there is and was noting but Russia stopping Russia from becoming a true Democratic and legitimate power. The reality is that the Russian Psyche has yet to recover from centuries of oppression and decades of brutal Soviet rule. They simply changed the uniforms from NKVD Soviet to Thug. Putin is a thug. He wants money and power and to Hell with the rest of the World.
Former OST Deutsch east German may feel like pals to the Russians, but; old west Germans will never tolerate Russians.
The Soviets machine gunned thousands of their own troops trying to fall back and regroup during every battle. The moronic paranoid Stalin had eviscerated the military of anyone competent and relied upon sheer terror to compel his troops. Not one step back was the cry. If they retreated or hesitated they where shot BY THERE OWN PEOPLE.
Stalin was politically linked with Hitler and had a treaty agreement. People often forget that Russia invaded Poland right along with Germany. They where both Socialists, they where both totalitarians.
The civilian population was constantly being murdered by Stalin. They where in as much peril from the Soviets as the Germans. Latvians, Estonians, Belorussians along with the entire Russian population was wasted by the Stalin plan of war. His incompetence and brutality caused at least half of the Russian deaths in WW II.
The Nazi's where brutal in Russia, but the Soviets where even worse. That is why so many Russians, particularly ethnic minorities, joined the German Army. For a large percentage of the population the Germans where liberators. They stopped Stalin from his continued efforts to murder them and ethnically cleanse their countries.
The lead editors of the Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, 1933–1945 of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, Geoffrey Megargee and Martin Dean, cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, operating from 1933 to 1945. They estimate that 15 million to 20 million people died or were imprisoned in the sites
According to Nazi SS records, there were more than 700,000 prisoners registered in the concentration camps in January 1945.
That means that Nazis murdered more than 14 million people in camps and ghettos..
Nazi Germany lasted 12 years. Soviet Empire lasted 72, six times longer. To have gulags having higher murder rate than Nazi camps, Communists had to murder more than 85 million people.
In Gulags Communists murdered around 40 million people. Even with a margin for error it is safe to say Nazi Germany was the champion in mass murder.
To claim Communist murder rate is higher rate than that of Nazi Germany in the concentration Camps means only one thing: diminishing the number of deaths in Nazi concentration camps.
Soviet Union was one of the most heinous regimes of history, but it does not give you the right to diminish the most heinous one, Nazi Germany.
You have your right to opinion,but you have no right to diminish Nazi crimes.
Even if they "now too Have God on their side".
The fact is that the Soviets killed a minimum of forty million. That we know of. It is estimated that as many as sixty million where killed directly and indirectly by Soviet policies. The entire Country of Ukraine was decimated by the Soviets.
They created a famine in 1932-33 that killed seven million in one year alone. The Ukrainian Holodomor is one of the WORST genocides by absolute number to be committed in known history.
As percentage of population European Jewry had a higher percentage loss, but by actual number of people the loss of Ukrainians to Soviet genocide is significantly higher, close to ten million people. All LONG BEFORE Hitler started his death camps. Many before Hitler even came to power.
They practiced ethnic cleansing by removing hundreds of thousands out of the Eastern Europe and into the Siberian interior, most where never heard from again. They simply where eliminated either by mass murder or by being worked to death. The Soviets then sent thousands of ethnic Russians to populate Eastern Europe to out breed the local population. Still today, around 20% of the population of Ukraine is ethnic Russian. All imported by the Soviets to quell the native populous. The same is true for the other Russian Satellite nations. It was these 'ethnic Russians' that the former KGB/NKVD thug Putin used as an excuse to 'liberate' Crimea.
As for all of Communism, it holds the prize for the greatest slaughter machine in all of human history.
Between Russia, China, Southeast Asia, Africa and Latin America perhaps as many as 250,000,000 have been directly murdered by communist governments. ALL where directly influenced by Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin. They are an unprecedented horror and pox on all mankind. It is the fraternal twin of Communism. Mao alone may be responsible for 100,000,000 deaths. Fascism is just another form of totalitarian Socialism.
Stop being a Soviet apologist. STOP being a communist sympathizer. It is unbecoming and down right stupid.
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