Posted on 08/15/2014 7:14:31 AM PDT by bigdaddy45
FERGUSON, Mo. — Suddenly, everything has changed.
The heavy riot armor, the SWAT trucks with sniper posts, the hostile glares: tonight in Ferguson they were gone.
A stunning change in tone radiated through the suburban streets where protests had turned violent each of the last four evenings following the police shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown.
But Thursday night, when more than a thousand protesters descended on the remains of QuickTrip – which was burned during riots on Sunday – they had a new leader.
The man at the front of the march, was Missouri Highway Patrol Capt. Ronald S. Johnson, a Ferguson native.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
I think we should have nuked the site from orbit.
It's the only way to be sure.
Sorry for the slow response.
“Fighting some fights with fire only makes them worse. This is one example.”
Try telling that to Neville Chamberlain about the pacifying attitude.
Actually I am old enough to remember the entire history of protests against the Vietnam war, protests I will note that I did not support at the time. The killings at Kent State and Jackson State didn't stop the protests, but actually intensified them, and perhaps lead to the more dangerous terror attacks and bombings that followed. The killings also galvanized public opinion against the government, and the war, which certainly wasn't helpful.
And the killings at Kent State demonstrated exactly why your suggestion that the "animals" in Ferguson should have been killed with tank fire is thoughtless and incorrect. Of the four students killed at Kent State only two of them had even participated in the protests, the other two were simply going to class. One of them, Mr. Schroeder, was a member of the campus ROTC battalion, and almost certainly a supporter of the very people who shot him. No doubt many of the people in the streets of Ferguson had nothing to do with the looting, and were opposed to it as much as they were opposed to what they believe to be police misconduct in the earlier shooting.
The idea that the government should "fight fire with fire" is nonsensical. That's what the rioter uses as his justification, and that line of thinking should be rejected. Militaristic actions by the government often lead to similar responses by members of the public, responses that we all agree are something we don't want in a civil society.
Having watched some of the live streams, I saw people holding signs, yelling, and walking around. I also saw a news crew taking video from the sidewalk get tear gassed and then have their equipment knocked over.
I don't consider any of that behavior to be "acting like animals" any more than I consider a group of conservatives out holding signs, or even moving barricades in Washington and arguing with the police to be "acting like animals".
“responses that we all agree are something we don’t want in a civil society.”
The question is, “Is this still a civil society or is it time to put an end to the riots, looting, stealing, burning and ruining of businesses?” Another question: “Do you consider the rioters, looters, thieves, arsonists to be ‘civil’?”
We all have our opinions. It is my opinion to put a stop to this animal behavior. The time has long past.
In addition, you did not respond to my comment about Neville Chamberlain. Pacification only emboldens the aggressors and I do believe that your solution is ‘pacification’.
Not at all. My suggestion is that police should not use tactics based on intimidation or threatened violence when faced with protests. The lines of militarized police were not present when the looting was happening, nor were they, for example, actually out trying to arrest the looters. Instead they were lined up to intimidate protestors and members of the media. You are mixing up what the police should have been doing during the rioting with what they actually did after the rioting.
All the tough guys with guns shown on TV somehow managed to not be at the stores being looted, but did manage to show up to intimidate protestors the next day.
Regardless of whether protestors are angry about what they believe to be an unjustified killing, or excessive taxes, or the WWII Memorial being closed, or uncontrolled illegal immigration, a response by police which reduces tensions instead of inflaming them is the proper approach.
First off you have to expect that the approach used by the police in one situation will be used in others. Do you really want to have some guy with an M4 pointing it at you if you are marching down the street with a sign? Remember, what you started off calling "animal behavior", the protests after the rioting, is known as protesting when the people doing it are, for example, your fellow Freepers.
Second, a bunch of amped up guys with guns can make a mistake, with long lasting, terrible consequences. Look at Kent State for one example, or the long run effects of the siege at Waco.
Finally, tactics based on intimidation and threats of violence rarely lead to the desired outcome, but only more violence. Ultimately police forces can only function when an overwhelming majority of the population supports them. If a community believes that the police are the enemy, and even a tiny minority of hot-headed extremists begin to actively rebel against the police (as opposed to avoiding them like typical criminals) then it is the police department that ends up changing its procedures in order to regain the support of the community.
If you want to understand that dynamic better I would encourage you to look at the history of policing in Philadelphia in the 1970s.
” the protests after the rioting, is known as protesting when the people doing it are, for example, your fellow Freepers.”
Excuse me, sir. FReepers nor other conservative protesters loot, steal, burn buildings then shoot at helicopters.
“Not at all.”
Call it what you will. I call it pacification. Again, ask Neville Chamberlain how that worked for him and the entire world. As I said, we all have our opinions. How long can anyone/any entity bend before they break and the criminals start dictating? I can assure you that the next ‘issue’ like this will have even more dire circumstances. I suppose, though, that the rioters should be commended for burning their own neighborhood and further destroying what little economy they had which will not return. They have cut off their noses to spite their faces.
I guess it was past your edtime when the Walmart and McDonalds and Quickshop and various other small businesses were looted and burned.
I don’t recall conservative groups anywhere doing that...
Old Testament Retributionists. An FR Specialty, Since 1997 (tm). :)
But no "protesters" got hurt, right?
Rather than use tear gas, perhaps a difficult-to-remove spray that smells like skunk would be more effective on looters and rioters.
I never said they did. Nor have I ever advocated not enforcing the law or arresting or stopping looters. According to media reports the same police who were armed to the teeth and facing off against the protestors did nothing to stop the looters. Kind of like the feds who can find a bus full of law enforcement agents to counter a protest related to immigration but nobody to guard the border.
The question worth considering is why do they do that? Even the local residents are complaining about the lack of police action when it was needed:
"Protesters believe the media has started to confuse the difference between themselves and the looters. Fights have begun on the streets as well as social media with some believing this has become similar to a game of chess."
"According to one peaceful protester, several of them literally put their bodies in between the looters and the different businesses. She feels their efforts were forced after several police officers got into their cars and drove away."
So that kumbaya “policing” worked out oh so well didn’t it? More of the same last night, except now the innocent are left exposed without a police presence to even deter, let alone interfere with the savagery...
Must have brought in more “reinforcements” last night...more of the same...
Savages vs. civilization and civilization is supposed to believe that we can change that?
The LAPD abandoned Koreatown on day 2 of a 5 day binge after the Rodney King verdicts, 50 dead, 4000+ injured, ~4k bldgs. burned and $1B in damages...
Actually that's not what the St. Louis Post Dispatch reported. According to their reporting the crowd was calm until police switched back to intimidation and tear gassing, and then after the crowd was fired up the police left. The residents and peaceful protesters ended up being the only people trying to maintain law and order.
"For most of Friday night, a festive atmosphere reigned in Ferguson as hundreds of people lined a two-block stretch of West Florissant Avenue, waving at honking cars slowly passing by, but shortly after midnight, the situation turned volatile as police showed up in riot gear."
"Police told the crowd over a loudspeaker to disperse immediately. Some in the crowd threw a few bottles at police, who didn’t initially react." "After several minutes, police turned and left, but as they retreated, they sprayed smoke bombs and threw sound cannons at the crowd."
"Rebecca McCloud was at the burned-out QuikTrip store that had been looted earlier in the week. She said she was organizing rides to bring volunteers to the streets tonight to guard businesses."
"McCloud, who is with Sonlight Missionary Baptist Church in East St. Louis, complained that the community could not rely on any policing agencies for protection."
""We're going to take the community by force," McCloud said of her and her fellow volunteers' efforts."
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