U.S. Embassy in Libya evacuates personnel

CNN ^ | July 26, 2014 | Barbara Starr

[mac_truck]

Did I miss any?

Afghanistan will be lost to the jihadists before Zero leaves office, count on it.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

US State Department Travel Warning - July 26, 2014

http://libya.usembassy.gov/tw_072614.html

The Department of State warns U.S. citizens against all travel to Libya and recommends that U.S. citizens currently in Libya depart immediately. On July 26, the U.S. Embassy suspended all embassy operations in Libya and relocated staff, due to ongoing violence between Libyan militias in the immediate vicinity of the Embassy.

The security situation in Libya remains unpredictable and unstable. The Libyan government has not been able to adequately build its military and police forces and improve security following the 2011 revolution. Many military-grade weapons remain in the hands of private individuals, including antiaircraft weapons that may be used against civilian aviation. Crime levels remain high in many parts of the country. In addition to the threat of crime, various groups have called for attacks against U.S. citizens and U.S. interests in Libya. Extremist groups in Libya have made several specific threats this year against U.S. government officials, citizens, and interests in Libya. Because of the presumption that foreigners, especially U.S. citizens, in Libya may be associated with the U.S. government or U.S. NGOs, travelers should be aware that they may be targeted for kidnapping, violent attacks, or death. U.S. citizens currently in Libya should exercise extreme caution and depart immediately.

Sporadic episodes of civil unrest have occurred throughout the country and attacks by armed groups can occur in many different areas; hotels frequented by westerners have been caught in the crossfire. Armed clashes have occurred in the areas near Tripoli International Airport, Airport Road, and Swani Road. Checkpoints controlled by militias are common outside of Tripoli, and at times inside the capital. Closures or threats of closures of international airports occur regularly, whether for maintenance, labor, or security-related incidents. Along with airports, seaports and roads can close with little or no warning. U.S. citizens should closely monitor news and check with airlines to try to travel out of Libya as quickly and safely as possible.

In Tripoli, armed groups have contested territory near Tripoli International Airport since July 13, rendering the airport non-operational. State security institutions lack basic capabilities to prevent conflict, and there remains a possibility of further escalation.

There are no plans for charter flights or other U.S. government-sponsored evacuations. U.S. citizens seeking to depart Libya are responsible for making their own travel arrangements. Land port closures occur frequently.

[Cold Heat]

We disagree..on that..I know their positions.

[Cold Heat]

“Why is that valid? “

In my view, and I thought I explained it in my posts, it’s valid because a Cold war is a valid tactic.

A cold war is a proxy for a hot one.

Interventions like the Ukraine are the biggest part of what a cold war is.

There are only two alternatives, and one of those is impossible now, but it’s always being worked on anyway.

Total peace or total war.

Both sides would like peace, but there is always some within each government who would do everything possible to screw it up.

So the best alternative is proxy wars.

[PghBaldy]

I was wrong. I misread the story.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

It’s OK, I followed you right over the cliff.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Both sides would like peace,

Peace is what happens when one side overwhelmingly defeats or annihilates the other.

[Cold Heat]

Ummm....yup....in most every case.

There are few exceptions. For example, we did not have to annihilate the Brits.

[CMB_polarization]

Now does ISIS step in and set up housekeeping?

[ReaganGeneration2]

Thanks for the reply. The question really is - why Putin’s Russia? Our economy is now built on fake money so we can’t afford another Cold War. Are we sure Putin has the same intentions as his Soviet predecessors? Do you trust Obama to kick this off?

[Cold Heat]

Probably not in Libya..It seems that they don’t get along with anyone...lol

[kabar]

“If you break it, you have to fix it.”

Why?

[Cold Heat]

I’ll give you my take in order.

Putin is not a western style Capitalist so he’s not like cuddly puppy. He’s kills or jails his opposition just like the others.

Politically he is more dangerous because he has no communist party to keep him in line. He runs the whole show so what he does is up to him. One bad day, and you could have chaos. Even Khrushchev had minders.

We will have to afford a cold war because he is waging one. Testing, probing Obama right now.

Lastly, I don’t think Obama has the stones or the inclination to intervene in any serious way. If he does it will have plausible deniability and cannot be traced back to him. Maybe some untraceable second hand arms and some rhetoric. I suspect all they will get is rhetoric and I think Putin knows this.

When the time is right I think Putin will suddenly take the high road, rub Obamas face in it and keep what he has occupied and leave Western Ukraine. He can accomplish the rest politically. So in the end Obama loses.

Putin wins..

Also I think it’s too late to do anything. that train left the station when Putin moved in to the black sea ports and we did nothing. And I mean nothing. Not even decent rhetoric.

[Cold Heat]

If you read my posts, I answered that in what I though was a extensive clear answer.

Some things that you break cannot be fixed because they are generationally broken and it takes a minimum of 30 years of management to get the first new generation in places of power or importance in a new regime like democracy in a place that has never had anything but tyranny or kings.

So if you leave early, and new tyranny replaces the old and what did you accomplish.

I made one exception, when I said that Cold war proxy battles in some little state are not intervened in for the same reasons. They have a bigger purpose and that is to destabilize your foe. The Proxy is just caught in the middle. You let your foe fix it.

[rlapuma]

“What difference does it make?”

[McGruff]

Somebody hit the Reset button!

[kabar]

If you use your prescription, "If you break it, you must fix it," then you circumscribe your ability to respond to immediate and long term threats. Moreover, we no longer have the resources to fix most of these problems.

So if you leave early, and new tyranny replaces the old and what did you accomplish.

I don't know how you divine when it is time to leave or when it is too early. In any event, we should address immediate threats regardless of whether we can implement a long term strategy or not.

I am not in favor of Colin Powell's Pottery Barn rule, which you support. It is a simplistic slogan, but in terms of implementing US foreign policy and protecting our strategic national interests, it hobbles and limits our actions.

[katykelly]

Who is that next to McCain ?

[BykrBayb]

Overthrew U.S. Congress. Bathhouse Barry took over.

[Cold Heat]

no....I did leave a exception for a strategic threat...ie: Russia

China

What other countries matter.

I left the exception of when we intervene politically and in other ways ie; Cold war

But the idea there is to leave the mess to be cleaned up by the larger foe.

I was addressing Libya as a perfect example of a break it/fixit rule. We should not have intervened. How about Egypt, How about Iraq.

Afghanistan initially was a response to a attack on our homeland. I was good with what Bush did. I hollered like a banshee when Obama turned it into a project and now he is leaving it too early just as he did Iraq, and all the crap we stirred up will just return to the outhouse in both places and all that investment and lives were totally wasted.

A total boondoggle waste.

A generation is 30 years as a rule for the first turnover. After that mathematically it starts to accelerate to get a total turnover based on at what age the kids are born to the new generation to make the third turnover. To change a countries political future and teach them new tricks that they have never done before, the generation that was there when you intervened will not be able to hold it together after the first problem arises. They will revert to the old ways, but the second generation educated in a modern way by the interventionist. (ie: us) Will have the knowledge and will not have the old wounds of a millennia of strife and inter tribal bigotry.

The 3rd generation will be even better. It might take 50 years to see those results as they emerge. But when you leave, you leave a stable society. The expense in this case would be worth it, never to return and to have a ally.