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Navy Missile Downs Iranian Jetliner (flashback)
Washington Post ^ | July 4, 1988 | George C Wilson

Posted on 07/18/2014 9:24:06 AM PDT by 11th_VA

A U.S. warship fighting gunboats in the Persian Gulf yesterday mistook an Iranian civilian jetliner for an attacking Iranian F14 fighting plane and blew it out of the hazy sky with a heat seeking missile ...

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: iranairflight655 Comment #1 Removed by Moderator

To: 11th_VA

Pretty sure nobody wants to talk about that right now.


2 posted on 07/18/2014 9:26:27 AM PDT by RC one (Militarized law enforcement is just a nice way of saying martial law enforcement.)
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To: 11th_VA

Is the Post still in business?


3 posted on 07/18/2014 9:26:36 AM PDT by SayNoToDems (Will the dancing Hitlers please wait in the wings? We're only seeing singing Hitlers.)
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To: 11th_VA

I forgot about that.

Considering the raging fire Obama has started from Pakistan to Tunisia, he hardly has the moral high ground to criticize Putin.


4 posted on 07/18/2014 9:27:54 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: 11th_VA

That was 25 years ago.

That is a very long, long time.

Technology advances. Just saying.


5 posted on 07/18/2014 9:28:11 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

If ID technology has advanced so much then why did Russian separatists shoot down a civilian airliner?

TC


6 posted on 07/18/2014 9:31:56 AM PDT by Pentagon Leatherneck
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To: 11th_VA
And yesterday was the anniversary date of another passenger jet also blown out of the sky by our friends in the US Navy.

TWA 800 Crashed 18 Years ago today.

Thursday, July 17, 2014 12:34:51 PM · by Toespi · 58 replies
 
Strange times.

 

7 posted on 07/18/2014 9:31:57 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: 11th_VA

This was all Rachel Maddcow talked about on MSLSD last night. It’s like the Russian shoot down didn’t even happen...and no, I’m not a regular viewer.


9 posted on 07/18/2014 9:33:12 AM PDT by BreezyDog
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To: 11th_VA

There were lots of questions about this when it happened. In particular, the bodies found floating were intact, naked, and bloated. Not quite what one would expect in a missile shootdown with a fireball of fuel.

There was speculation that the transponder on the plane was chirping “F15”, so when the search radar picked it up it was ID’d as a hostile. In other words, a setup which teh global press pounced on like they had been waiting for the go signal.

Whatever the cause or whether it was a setup, someone put the crosshairs on the blip and pushed the button.


10 posted on 07/18/2014 9:34:33 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: BreezyDog

Yeah I flipped by her show last night, and thought the exact same thing.

And no, I’m not a regular viewer either.

She was totally on a spin mission. Maybe I shouldn’t have trounced on this post so quick, but that was exactly what I thought about when I read this post.


11 posted on 07/18/2014 9:35:27 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: cripplecreek

The President speaks for us or have you forgotten?

I don’t care about his other actions, I expect him to hold Russia accountable. Doesn’t even matter if they weren’t directly related, this whole situation is his fault.


12 posted on 07/18/2014 9:36:20 AM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: RC one

Standard missiles are heat seeking?

Who knew???


13 posted on 07/18/2014 9:36:47 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: RC one

We acknowledged it, we apologized for it, we paid compensation to the families of killed passengers.

After deliberately and willfully shooting down KAL007, the Soviets lied, denied, and obfuscated.

Let’s see what the Russkis do now ...


14 posted on 07/18/2014 9:36:58 AM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: Responsibility2nd

“in the US Navy”

Nope...


15 posted on 07/18/2014 9:37:42 AM PDT by wxgesr (I wanna be the first person to surf on another planet......)
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To: NorthMountain

Did we?

Wikipedia says no. (I know, I know. Trusting Wikipedia is risky.)

However, the United States has never admitted responsibility, nor apologized to Iran.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655


16 posted on 07/18/2014 9:38:52 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Almondjoy
I don’t care about his other actions, I expect him to hold Russia accountable.

I want him to go golfing. He's already made enough messes.
17 posted on 07/18/2014 9:39:32 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

“in the US Navy”

Nope...


18 posted on 07/18/2014 9:40:09 AM PDT by wxgesr (I wanna be the first person to surf on another planet......)
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To: BreezyDog

I was watching Fox and couldn’t believe nobody even talked about this incident - but maybe that’s because I was on active duty back then and have a vivid memory of the whole thing.

PS - I sometimes watch MsNbC for a few seconds myself. Was listening to Al Sharpton the other day and he was “shocked” at the number of black callers pissed off about Obama not enforcing the borders - gave me hope they may not turn out this fall.


19 posted on 07/18/2014 9:40:25 AM PDT by 11th_VA (Decriminalize Tax Evasion)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

The system thought to be used in this instance was the BUK, which is from the 70s.


20 posted on 07/18/2014 9:40:56 AM PDT by edpc (Wilby 2016)
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To: edpc

Oh yeah. That’s a good point actually.

Thanks.


21 posted on 07/18/2014 9:43:02 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: DBrow

I have a friend who was on an oiler in the Indian Ocean at the time. The Vincennes had a real rep as an a**hole ship with something to prove. The Capt was just itching for the chance to actually do something with his nice, shiny Aegis Cruiser.

The friend also stressed to me the desire and need for aggressive ship commanders in the Navy, but that the Vincennes CO took it to a much different level.


22 posted on 07/18/2014 9:43:13 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: wxgesr

Nope....

_________________________________

Nope what? The US Navy is not our friends?

Or do you believe it was terrorists that shot down that flight?

Or (giggle) even funnier, (Heh heh heh) do you actually believe (HA HA HA HA HA....) The “Official” US version?

HA HA HA HA HA HA... ROFLMAO.....


23 posted on 07/18/2014 9:43:16 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

At no point did we deny that USS VINCENNES launched the missile ... we expressed ‘regret’ for the loss of life ... we forked over the bucks.

Even wikipedia agrees with that.

The Russians/Soviets, OTOH ...


24 posted on 07/18/2014 9:44:12 AM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: cripplecreek

ROFLMAO !!! (Now that’s funny)


25 posted on 07/18/2014 9:47:18 AM PDT by 11th_VA (Decriminalize Tax Evasion)
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To: Pentagon Leatherneck

The rebels probably didn’t care if it was an airliners or not, they were likely to shoot anything that flew over.


26 posted on 07/18/2014 9:47:18 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: NorthMountain

The Russians were just a few decades ahead of the Obama administration, politically speaking. This President will never apologize for anything either


27 posted on 07/18/2014 9:49:35 AM PDT by 11th_VA (Decriminalize Tax Evasion)
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To: DBrow

IIRC, there was a report that there were 2 Iranian Tomcats shadowing the airliner, probably to sneak attack the US destroyer. Once the destroyer locked on, and fired the missiles, the Tomcats broke off and ran.


28 posted on 07/18/2014 9:49:59 AM PDT by PhiloBedo (You gotta roll with the punches and get with what's real.)
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To: GeronL

That bears repeating.....

“The rebels probably didn’t care if it was an airliners or not, they were likely to shoot anything that flew over.”

Irrational exuberance with no reliable commanders


29 posted on 07/18/2014 9:50:35 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. NEgypt.C. GOPc.+12 ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: NorthMountain

Not to mention, the U.S. was savaged in the press over it. Whereas now, it appears that the implication is that what the Russian separatists did was ok because the U.S. did it.


30 posted on 07/18/2014 9:52:47 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 11th_VA

When I was a factory foreman I had a couple of mentally retarded adults in the shop. They weren’t great at very complex jobs but simple repetitive tasks that needed doing were where they proved their value.

Obama is the kind of guy I would tell to take a chair, prop that door open with it and sit in the chair to make sure the door stays open.

(Course I’d just end up with a shop full of Guatemalans)


31 posted on 07/18/2014 10:00:42 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: bert

I got that thought from the transcript of the intercepted phone call I read.


32 posted on 07/18/2014 10:00:57 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: DBrow
Whatever the cause or whether it was a setup, someone put the crosshairs on the blip and pushed the button.

Flying a passenger airliner through a region where your own forces are actively engaged with USN surface warships may qualify as a setup in itself. At the time, some of the high-speed attack boats that the Iranians were using were actively firing on the Vincennes, which was returning fire with the 5-in gun. Then an aircraft starts to fly right over the cruiser, and - despite multiple hails on appropriate emergency frequencies - refuses to reply or change course.

What I understand was the proximate cause was that a relatively junior officer got confused in the intensity of the moment and started reading a range indication as an altitude indication. The range was decreasing as the aircraft flew toward the cruiser, and but it was interpreted as decreasing altitude as the target dove toward the ship. Diving toward the ship - at high speed - is an offensive maneuver and so the ship fired on the threat.

The error was in mis-reading the displays, but it was a real error and resulted in the loss of many civilian lives. It was something to 'regret', but at the same time flying an airliner over a warship actively engaged in combat with your own national forces at least has to be considered a 'contributing' cause.

As a technical note, you don't set a transponder to a code that identifies the type of aircraft. The codes are set to the flight type - one of many IFR codes for airliners or other IFR traffic, with special codes for emergencies of various types. There are separate military signal formats that an airliner wouldn't have anyway, but not aircraft-type-ID codes. Also, the Iranians didn't (and don't) have any F-15s. They had F-14s. On the other hand, a false transponder code wasn't required.
33 posted on 07/18/2014 10:01:41 AM PDT by Phlyer
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To: tanknetter
Standard missiles are heat seeking?
Who knew???


Obviously, you haven't been getting your information from the most technically and factually accurate sources. You need to subscribe to the Washington Compost and the New York Slime. Otherwise you might have thought that a Standard missile was a command-guided missile with a semi-active radar terminal phase.
34 posted on 07/18/2014 10:06:48 AM PDT by Phlyer
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To: 1rudeboy

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s Ok because we did it. The yahoo’s on the ground that fired the missile screwed up - just like we did. But the airliner could have avoided the air space as well - just sayin ...


35 posted on 07/18/2014 10:13:24 AM PDT by 11th_VA (Decriminalize Tax Evasion)
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To: NorthMountain

Actually, we didn’t apologize.

There’s no evidence of the Iran Air’s crew doing anything but following normal civilian procedure. Vincennes had been pushing the envelope for some time, as the record showed.

Captain and crew all received normal end-of-tour medals and commendations, but the captain never received another sea command, and retired about 30 months afterwards.


36 posted on 07/18/2014 10:15:20 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: PhiloBedo

Yeah, “there was a report”. That sounds real solid. “Some guy said.”

Come on, our guy screwed up. Man up and admit it.


37 posted on 07/18/2014 10:18:30 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: edpc
"BUK, which is from the 70s."

I've been reading that a lot lately. My research leads me to believe this system is much more modern that a 70's system. The platform might have been designed in the late 70's but the missiles, radar and comm gear are more likely late 80's tech if captured from Ukraine forces but 90's or newer tech if they came from modern Russian forces.

38 posted on 07/18/2014 10:22:46 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I know that the US Navy was not responsible for the downing of TWA800.

If you want to disagree feel free, but do not ping me.


39 posted on 07/18/2014 10:24:52 AM PDT by wxgesr (I wanna be the first person to surf on another planet......)
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To: wxgesr

....but do not ping me.

_________________________________

Say what? You pinged me. Twice. I just replied, that’s all.

Are you new here? Freep much?


40 posted on 07/18/2014 10:34:33 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: jpsb

Difficult to say. We know Russia provided T- 64 tanks to the separatists and they’re from the 1960s.


41 posted on 07/18/2014 10:37:06 AM PDT by edpc (Wilby 2016)
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To: NorthMountain

Is that how it was? are you sure?


42 posted on 07/18/2014 10:52:01 AM PDT by RC one (Militarized law enforcement is just a nice way of saying martial law enforcement.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
She was totally on a spin mission.

Let me tell you a thing or two about MSNBC...

43 posted on 07/18/2014 10:53:11 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: RC one

If you have something to say, say it.


44 posted on 07/18/2014 10:54:34 AM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

It was shot down by an Ageis guided missile cruiser. I doubt an F-14 has the same radar signature as an Airbus.


45 posted on 07/18/2014 11:04:41 AM PDT by DownInFlames
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To: Romulus

You may not be old enough to remember. There was also speculation the shoot down was payback for the Iranians taking down the Arrow military charter flight taking off from Gander. The Iranian’s motive was they got screwed by Ollie and Reagan in the embassy hostage exchange. Ollie sent them Hawk missile that had been rigged to not work.

Interesting the Captain and crew we’re not disiplined. I think the Captain got a letter in his file. That’s it.

There were reports Barry instigated the border invasion. Nothing official though.

There’s always the word on the street from back channels and then the official SRM version for public consumption.

I’m not going to spend hours digging through archives to satisfy some anal computer geek.


46 posted on 07/18/2014 11:40:54 AM PDT by PhiloBedo (You gotta roll with the punches and get with what's real.)
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To: PhiloBedo

I was over 30 at the time. Is that old enough?


47 posted on 07/18/2014 12:00:14 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: 11th_VA
The yahoo’s on the ground that fired the missile screwed up - just like we did.

At least the Vincennes had the excuse that they believed they were shooting down a fighter jet fixing to launch an Exocet at them. The previous year, two Exocets fired by mistake from an Iraqi fighter (Saddam was an ally at the time) slammed into the USS Stark and killed 37 sailors. By contrast, the Ukrainian shoot was strictly offensive.

But the airliner could have avoided the air space as well - just sayin ...

As I recall, the USN offered the same defense in 1988.

48 posted on 07/18/2014 12:13:48 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Romulus

Yes. Sorry about the rant. My snark tolerance is low, today.


49 posted on 07/18/2014 12:54:03 PM PDT by PhiloBedo (You gotta roll with the punches and get with what's real.)
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