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U.S. Navy Discovers That Sailors Need Sleep (LCS Troubles)
War is Boring ^ | 07/11/2014 | Michael Peck

Posted on 07/11/2014 10:51:02 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

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To: laplata

We are agreed.


21 posted on 07/12/2014 12:03:24 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: DariusBane

Do I win a prize? ;^)


22 posted on 07/12/2014 12:03:51 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: cva66snipe

A submariner told me that our sub strategy has always been the opposite of this. Said the Ruskies (back in the day) were trying to automate more and have fewer men, that the US realized that thinking was critical to operating a nuke sub, so they had more men on board relatively speaking. They said the “more human brains” strategy worked far better, since you’re dealing with complex equipment and potentially complex situations.

Now we’re going completely in the opposite direction ???

My tech background tells me the reasoning is simple: vendors who sell hardware are always trying to get you to buy more expensive hardware. Way more than you need, features you don’t need, complexity that winds up being more expensive, etc., etc.

The revolving door is so pervasive, and lately political corruption and ties with socialist elite financiers is so out in the open, that FedGov seems to think that any wacky idea they embark on will be largely unreported and thus unchallenged by Congress or anyone else.

It’s like the spending at NSA for data storage to store every email, phone call, etc.

Do you know how computer FAST hardware depreciates in value - and becomes completely obsolete ?

Buying that much storage is doomed to looking like a ridiculously old-fashioned computer museum within a decade.

But it’s the sheeple’s money, and the vendors are inviting us to all those parties and what not, so...


23 posted on 07/12/2014 12:28:06 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Somehow, the Simplest Tool Theory has been forgotten. “The simplest tool that’ll get the job done is always the best tool”. They’re pretty much 180 out of phase.


24 posted on 07/12/2014 1:29:06 AM PDT by ArmstedFragg (Hoaxey Dopey Changey)
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To: PieterCasparzen

I am working at Electric Boat. I am assigned to the massive engineering pooled hired to design the OHIO Class replacement project. I specifically work in propulsion plant fluids. I am one of 2 former submarine sailors in that department. I was both an operator and an officer.

My first assignment was to perform a complex study regarding the manning of the engineering department. The OHIO class had 4 more watching stations in the engineeroom than the new VIRGINIA Class submarines. In the initial concept phase the Navy wanted to take it a step further, and only have 1 person in maneuvering and an officer, and only 2 people in the spaces, as opposed to the 6 in the VIRGINIA.

The operator in maneuvering, said he felt like he was playing “whack a mole”, when we introduced him to the prototype under a casualty situation. The operators in the spaces were completely overwhelmed to do the initial response to fire/flooding/steam leak drill. In short the proposed watch team was inadequate, and the Navy elected to keep the same as VIRGINIA.

I will take this a step further. I had to estimate the work hours of the engineer department sailors, and confirm the Navy’s proposed engineering crew size would not work anymore per person than the OHIO class. I spent over a year and half collecting data. I sent 3 surveys with every preventive maintenance item for their equipment, time spent paint and cleaning, and time for corrective maintenance. As it turns out the proposed crew size will have fewers hours spent on maintenance due to the efficiency of the system.

With this, the Navy, at least on this project took a large consideration about their crew size, and their ability to effectively meeting the engineering department duties.


25 posted on 07/12/2014 1:36:55 AM PDT by castlegreyskull
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To: Organic Panic

The minesweeper instrument on my project got moved to the LCS so they could add another mission to the ship’s capability. But the instrument weighed 1,000 pounds and was helicopter towed by a MH-53. To move it they had to tow it with the much smaller LCS’ MH-60. Towing with the 60 meant the helicopter had to go so slow that if there was a problem they’d drop in the drink before recovery. So, they regularly towed it faster which put them at the edge of their stress level. The pilots regularly guillotined the $150k tow cables and lost the multi-million dollar package thereby requiring a $300k deep dive recovery. So, the political decision to move the mission to a ship it was unsuited for led to the Navy losing a potentially good minesweeping device. Pure politics.

I have to wonder what other mission were moved to the LCS for which it is also unsuited. For example, Hezbollah has Chinese made, Iranian supplied anti-ship missiles it fires from shore. They have hit five Israeli patrol boats resulting in loss of life. The Israeli boats are MUCH smaller and harder to hit.

Also, a single mine would destroy the LCS’s very light hull. I think this is another idea-fart from a planner who spent his career at a desk.


26 posted on 07/12/2014 3:44:45 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: castlegreyskull

Thank you for your service, sir, and that info.

Good to know that something appears to have worked out.

Based on my software experience as a programmer, I get what you’re saying.

I can’t stand when there are “shortcuts” made for the wrong reasons when we’re spending so much money already and we know in advance that we need to handle battle conditions as the norm.

I’m very skeptical of the whole idea of transforming to littoral and backing away from blue water, since transforming back, if need be, can not be done at a moment’s notice. And, IMHO, the military needs to be ready on a moment’s notice.

IMHO, the whole littoral thing is aimed at making our military useful to financial elites who influence our gov’t at the highest levels in their manipulations of revolutions, covert ops in undeclared wars, etc.

Invariably when you focus on something other than your real job, your real job has a way of popping up when you least expect it, and then you’re not prepared.


27 posted on 07/12/2014 4:11:24 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Use Gearings instead of Fletchers, the 2250s had longer legs and greater firepower with the same engineering plant and a slightly larger hull.


28 posted on 07/12/2014 4:12:29 AM PDT by X Fretensis
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To: sukhoi-30mki

LCS stands for Little Crappy Ships.


29 posted on 07/12/2014 4:15:25 AM PDT by X Fretensis
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To: Gen.Blather
The LCS is supposed to deploy helicopters and unmanned vessels closer to shore, with the unmanned vessels doing tasks like mine sweeping and submarine detection.

What do you think of the idea of just building additional San Antonio class amphibious transport dock ships, capable of fielding a variety of manned and unmanned vessels and mission packages? The ships could sit further out at sea, out of range of shore-based anti-ship missiles, while being able to haul and support larger vessels for close littoral work.

And when not needed for LCS-type tasks, the ships would be available in case we again needed amphibious capability again.

30 posted on 07/12/2014 4:48:01 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PapaBear3625

“What do you think of the idea of just building additional San Antonio class amphibious transport dock ships, “

You’re thinking like somebody who is paying for it rather than somebody who wants a promotion. Nobody along the chain would get promotions or good effectiveness ratings by suggesting we re-apply an existing cheaper solution. But a new class of ships and lots and lots of contract money which can be leveraged to political advantage, now there’s a reason for a totally new design. Plus, the LCS was touted as the new eNavy that would make everything so much cheaper and so much more useful than those crew-intensive old heavy blue water ships.


31 posted on 07/12/2014 5:06:49 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Little crappy ship is FLAMMABLE and built to kill Americans.

No surprise actually since the Pentagon
now works for, and reports to, and protects,
al Qaeda OVER THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.


32 posted on 07/12/2014 5:30:29 AM PDT by Diogenesis (The EXEMPT US Congress remains COMPLICIT)
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To: Slings and Arrows

It’s not just you.

Regards,


33 posted on 07/12/2014 5:34:04 AM PDT by VermiciousKnid (Sic narro nos totus!)
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To: Gen.Blather
You’re thinking like somebody who is paying for it rather than somebody who wants a promotion.

LOL!

34 posted on 07/12/2014 5:45:14 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Organic Panic

I hate to think what would happen if it was badly damaged by something...like a direct hit. Who would keep it afloat?


35 posted on 07/12/2014 7:03:29 AM PDT by virgil (The evil that men do lives after them)
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To: DariusBane

In polite terms, CF is a cluster failure. :=)


36 posted on 07/12/2014 7:14:10 AM PDT by Bob
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To: cva66snipe
.


Well, you're certainly NOT "MBA material" ... after reading that mean-spirited and judgemental critique of yours ...


In other words, "Well Done", Sailor !!!


.
37 posted on 07/12/2014 7:34:21 AM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Actually, LCS stands for Little Crappy Ship. At $400 million it is oversold, overpriced, underarmed, undermanned, and not survivable in a fight. USS Freedom (LCS-1) is the closest to a full armament package but still lacks its surface-to-surface missiles. USS Independence (LCS-2) lacks its Mk 46 Mod 1 30mm guns (2x) or their SSM battery. Conversion modules are still being procured and neither ship has an air group of Fire Scout UAVs yet.

The overweight problem for LCS-1 remains unsolved and LCS-2 still has corrosion control problems. Both ships were designed to do 45+ knots, but someone at NavSea forgot that anti-ship cruise missiles got a minimum of Mach 0.8 or faster. Good luck outrunning one of them and surviving. LCS crewing is so small they do not have damage control ability. As far as I can see, the LCS is a $400 million target.

38 posted on 07/12/2014 10:45:41 AM PDT by MasterGunner01
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To: Ready4Freddy

Yep, but it was the wrong answer.


39 posted on 07/12/2014 10:59:02 AM PDT by NonValueAdded ("The Arab Spring is over. Welcome to the Jihadi Spring." Jonah Goldberg)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Looks like the Disco Volante. Where’s Largo?


40 posted on 07/12/2014 11:01:09 AM PDT by NonValueAdded ("The Arab Spring is over. Welcome to the Jihadi Spring." Jonah Goldberg)
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