Pope, Netanyahu spar over Jesus' native language

Reuters ^ | 26 May 2014 | Reuters

[VitacoreVision]

Pope Francis and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu traded words on Monday over the language spoken by Jesus two millennia ago. "Jesus was here, in this land. He spoke Hebrew," Netanyahu told Francis, at a public meeting in Jerusalem in which the Israeli leader cited a strong connection between Judaism and Christianity. "Aramaic," the pope interjected. "He spoke Aramaic, but he knew Hebrew," Netanyahu shot back. Like many things in the Middle East, where the pope is on the last leg of a three-day visit, modern-day discourse about Jesus is complicated and often political. A Jew, Jesus was born in Bethlehem in the Roman-ruled region of Judea, now the Israeli-occupied West Bank. He grew up in Nazareth and ministered in Galilee, both in northern Israel, and died in Jerusalem, a city revered by Jews, Christians and Muslims, and to which Israelis and Palestinians lay claim. Palestinians sometimes describe Jesus as a Palestinian. Israelis object to that. Israeli linguistics professor Ghil'ad Zuckermann told Reuters that both Netanyahu, son of a distinguished Jewish historian, and the pope, the spiritual leader of the world's 1.2 billion Catholics, had a point. "Jesus was a native Aramaic speaker," he said about the largely defunct Semitic language closely related to Hebrew. "But he would have also known Hebrew because there were extant religious writings in Hebrew." Zuckermann said that during Jesus' time, Hebrew was spoken by the lower classes - "the kind of people he ministered to".

[Romulus]

Scripture calls upon believers in Jesus to accept oral teaching of the apostles. There must be dozens of citations. You can’t reject unwritten Sacred Tradition without rejecting what’s written as well.

[Genoa]

It seems we disagree on some basic assumptions. Anyway, I’ll be heading outside to enjoy the holiday! Somebody else can take up with you if they want to. FRegards.

[af_vet_1981]

1. I don't recall Jesus ever saying that His purpose was to keep the land for Israel,
2. and why didn't any of the New Testament writers mention it at all?
3. Didn't Jesus weep over Jerusalem and say that no stone would be left?
4. Jesus said clearly that He made a new covenant with his blood.

By the numbers
1. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
   We don't get to know yet when He will restore the kingdom to Israel.
2. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. They did; Acts and Romans
3. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. It is yet future, as He said in Acts
   
   And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Fulfilled in the year 70 when Romans destroyed the Temple
4. And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
   Yes, and this is what it was in reference to:
   Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

[EnquiringMind]

I am a churchgoing Catholic, but this Pope doesn't have my vote against Netanyahu

[af_vet_1981]

Make no mistake about this: God has revealed nothing about any plan involving the re-institution of a Jewish state. If the state of Israel (the polity, not the people) is any part of God's will, it is unknown to us. Belief to the contrary is the 19th century invention of an American fringe sect -- previously unknown throughout Christian history. Zionism has nothing to do with Christianity.

If it is hidden, it is hidden. Yet Zionism is Biblical.

• By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion. We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof. For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion. How shall we sing the LORD'S song in a strange land? If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy. Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof. O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
• Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

[Romulus]

The Old Testament is about Jesus and his work, not 21st century politics. Israel and Jerusalem are types of the Church. The Bible isn’t a fortune-telling manual.

[af_vet_1981]

The Old Testament is about Jesus and his work, not 21st century politics. Israel and Jerusalem are types of the Church. The Bible isn’t a fortune-telling manual.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Israel and Jerusalem are eternal, and that is God's plan in the Messiah.

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

[olezip]

Both are right. Aramaic was the spoken language among Jews; Hebrew was the language of the Jewish religion; Greek was the lingua franca used by both Jews and Gentiles. Latin was the official language of Rome. No Arabic.

I agree. Both are correct.

[Gluteus Maximus]

Jesus spoke Aramaic which was the language of the spoken language Jewish people in his day. He certainly knew Hebrew, at least as a language of books. Like Jews in Russia before WWII, they spoke one language (Yiddish) in everyday life but studied their religion in Hebrew.

Jesus probably also spoke Greek and Latin. He was an educated man of his day, at the very least, and knowledge of both Greek and Latin would be pretty much expected.

None of that is controversial.

Where's the problem?

[af_vet_1981]

He was an educated man of his day

Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon?

What do you mean by "educated man of his day?" His wisdom was unquestioned, and that from above. That he had the gift of tongues I have no doubt.

[RitaOK]

How vivid, your comment. And so very deep and ponderous.

Do post more of your extensively documented and historically rooted knowledge of the Catholic pope Francis, of the Jesuit Order, the most broadly intellectual and educated Catholic Order, with easy proficiencies in the geographical useage of the languages of all antiquity, as but ONE track of research studies.

Screws loose don’t generally make a Jesuit into a pope.

So. What have you accomplished lately?

[Romulus]

Thou has said it: a great many branches are broken off.

When Paul wrote about “all Scripture”, what do you suppose he was talking about?

[RinaseaofDs]

Actually, he’s a pinko, and forgot what was written about the jews being his chosen people.

[Gluteus Maximus]

His teachers were astounded by his erudition at the ripe old age of twelve. It’s safe to assume that a super genius like Jesus of Nazareth had absorbed everything available to him, including languages.

[af_vet_1981]

Thou has said it: a great many branches are broken off.

Far too many from Paul's and my perspective

When Paul wrote about “all Scripture”, what do you suppose he was talking about?

He was writing about the Tanach; the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings which are commonly known as the Old Testament. It is hidden as to when the New Testament books were written ;)

[af_vet_1981]

His teachers were astounded by his erudition at the ripe old age of twelve. It’s safe to assume that a super genius like Jesus of Nazareth had absorbed everything available to him, including languages.

Yes, his wisdom was from above, from the Father of lights. His genius was in righteousness and subjection to the Father's will.

[Verginius Rufus]

By that time most educated Romans were bilingual and fully fluent in Greek. Greek would have been widely known among the Jewish leaders—presumably that was the language that Pilate would have used when conversing with the chief priests (not Latin or Aramaic). Probably not a lot of Latin-speakers in the eastern Mediterranean at that time, even if Latin was one of the three languages used to identify Jesus on the cross.

[lightman]

The Gospels tell us that Pilate commanded the inscription on the Cross to be written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek.

Not Aramaic.

Not Arabic.

[af_vet_1981]

The Gospels tell us that Pilate commanded the inscription on the Cross to be written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek. Not Aramaic. Not Arabic.

That is an interesting point, not one I would expect Bibi to make. I find it good and hopeful that Bibi mentioned Jesus, acknowledging Jesus belonged in Israel, in his role as a leader of Israel.

[COBOL2Java]

The pope is a dope.

And another comment comes from the Peanut Gallery