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To: tcrlaf
Again, is there another source, besides MaidanPR, covering this story in near-real time, that you would approve of?

Nothing wrong with posting from biased news sources, but you should at least be able to admit and periodically point out to people who follow your threads that RT is pure Russian state propaganda. Doesn't mean there isn't some good information to be had, just that it all comes through the prism of Russian propagandists.

I actually find it interesting to see the Russian perspective, but let us not kid ourselves about what we are reading. It may be worth posting from MSNBC sometimes too, but we all know that is Democrat Party propaganda.

My impression, and perhaps I am wrong, is that you are firmly in the Putin camp - and that group is generally referred to as Putinista's here and on other conservative sites. Libertarian and Ron Paul sites (and to some extent blogs like ZeroHedge) tend to treat RT as if it were real, unbaised news because they often believe all kinds of conspiracy theories about what is going on in the Ukraine. They think it's all about fiat currency, gold, petro dollars replacing the US dollar as the worlds reserve currency, neo-cons (aka Jews), an Israeli plots, etc. I'm sorry but all of that is a bunch of nonsensical conspiracy theories better left to infowars and sites like it.

It's really pretty simple. Most Ukrainians, not all but a majority, would rather align with the West (even if that means all the bad things that come from associating with the Euroweasels and IMF). Russia just proved, if any proof was necessary, by annexing the Crimea that they are interested in expanding their territory almost no matter what the cost. If you don't believe Russian operatives are in Eastern Ukraine stirring up much of this trouble, you've got blinders on.

There many not be any "good" guys here, but most conservatives are going to be with Ukrainians who wish to lean to the West and get out from under the boot of an increasingly undemocratic (again) Russia. They've lived with a Russian/Soviet neighbor who has starved them, seized their land and generally been a meddling, overbearing threat who is determined to keep the Ukraine in their sphere of influence come hell or high water. Even if the EU is worse in your opinion, the majority of Ukrainians don't have as bad a history with them.

24 posted on 05/02/2014 4:01:10 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Longbow1969

“My impression, and perhaps I am wrong, is that you are firmly in the Putin camp”

Then, you would be incorrect.

I have been looking at the MUCH bigger geo-political picture of what is going on. This is much bigger than just Ukraine, it goes all the way back to Syria and Libya.

There are MANY moving pieces here, and some of them are in the shadows.

That said, RT has usually been Johnny-on-the-spot with it’s reporting. Yesterday, for example, they had stories, videos, pics, and a live blog going of the fighting around Slovyansk at least TWO HOURS before a Western source even put out the first tweet about it.


39 posted on 05/02/2014 4:32:12 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Longbow1969

Thoughtful post, but unfortunately most likely wrong on one important point. Although polling - esp in a country like Ukraine - must be taken with a large pinch of salt, most polls indicated that by the late autumn 2013 the support for the EU treaty had waned, and there was roughly the same support for the Russian customs union as for the EU treaty. But more
Importantly was the large difference in preferences between the western and central parts of Ukraine compared to the southern and eastern districts. That was not surprising given the different histories of these areas. However, the real reason for the different choices may just as well have been economical. The effects of the EU treaty was going to be different for the different areas even if an agreement could have been made with Russia. Thus, a policy that forced Ukraine to chose between Russia and the West was bound to cause severe tensions within
the country. When those tensions brought some of the more extreme forces to the power (in Kiev and in the eastern Ukraine) we had a receipe for disaster. Ukraine may turn into a second Yugoslavia - but this time on the border of Russia. It is quite likely that up until yesterday the large majority of the Ukrainian people wanted their nation to remain intact. Possibly some areas wanted more autonomy, but in all likelihood still be part of Ukraine. But if the latest news are true, will that still be so tomorrow?


40 posted on 05/02/2014 4:34:00 PM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: Longbow1969

Great post. Thanks for taking the time.


66 posted on 05/02/2014 5:21:19 PM PDT by FreeReign
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