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Ukrainian army launches assault on Kramatorsk
RT ^ | 5-2-2014 | RT

Posted on 05/02/2014 3:12:06 PM PDT by tcrlaf

Ukraine’s National Guard is reportedly storming the eastern town of Kramatorsk. Meanwhile, the army has resumed its special operation in Slavyansk, where two soldiers have been killed.

“The assault is starting now,” a Kramatorsk self-defense activist has told RIA Novosti by phone. Another activist told the news agency that the National Guard opened fire on self-defense forces.

Dozens have been killed or injured in Kramatorsk, a doctor told RIA Novosti. The medic added that the fighting has now stopped and all of those injured have been taken to hospitals in Kramatorsk and Slavyansk. At least two died on the way to the hospital, she said.

(Excerpt) Read more at rt.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: civilwar; kramatorsk; russia; ukraine
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To: tcrlaf; All

Dmitry Medvedev Statement Via facebook:

The use of force in southeastern Ukraine is a sign of the criminal helplessness of the present rulers of Kiev.

As opposed to initiating a normal dialogue in the spirit of the Geneva accords and bringing all of the parties to the conflict to the negotiating table to discuss compromises and potential resolutions, they have launched a punitive operation.

They are using troops and helicopters. People are dying. There is bloodshed.

Responsibility for this war against their own people rests with those who are making criminal decisions in Kiev. The authorities in Ukraine’s capital should come to their senses and stop killing their own people. Otherwise, the country’s destiny could be quite grievous.”
https://www.facebook.com/Dmitry.Medvedev/posts/10152022998256851?fref=nf

The Odessa Massacre is setting the Russian-speaking world on fire (so to speak).


51 posted on 05/02/2014 5:00:11 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

They, the Ukes, have swords? Maybe they have some stuff left over from the Royal Cossacks?


52 posted on 05/02/2014 5:00:29 PM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: tcrlaf

FYI....Armed Right Sector militants arrived in Slavyansk by helicopter wearing right sector uniform distributed by Keiv...these are the “new National Guard types”....LOLOLOL


53 posted on 05/02/2014 5:02:31 PM PDT by caww
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

You should stop acting the fool. It’s the 21st Century now. Videos of it are EVERYWHERE.

Do you not understand??
The Odessa Massacre is setting things off now, in a way some armed guys in Donetsk ever could. The average Russian is PI***D.

Now amount of shilling I going to change the facts on the ground.


54 posted on 05/02/2014 5:03:08 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
It’s the 21st Century now. Videos of it are EVERYWHERE.

Maybe Obama can be brought to see that folks will get medieval no matter what the calendar says.

55 posted on 05/02/2014 5:08:17 PM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: tcrlaf
You should stop acting the fool. It’s the 21st Century now. Videos of it are EVERYWHERE.

Remember, you are a Putinist having false outrage about Ukrainians responding to Russkie provocation. Naturally, I have a hard time appreciating your response.

The Odessa Massacre is setting things off now, in a way some armed guys in Donetsk ever could. The average Russian is PI***D.

The average Russian in Russia is stuck watching images of Hitler on loop interspersed with images of the Ukrainian flag. I'm not too concerned about how sheeple respond to a massacre. Though, I am perfectly aware that the Russians are looking and hoping to create this sort of violence so they can begin the invasion officially.

56 posted on 05/02/2014 5:08:21 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: caww
FYI....Armed Right Sector militants arrived in Slavyansk by helicopter wearing right sector uniform distributed by Keiv...these are the “new National Guard types”....LOLOLOL

You cretins have been saying this for ages, and, yet, you've never produced any evidence that Right Sector, which has somewhere between 2000 to 10,000 members tops (and probably an exaggerated number) out of a population of 45 million, has any one out there being used by the Ukrainian government. For the 5th, 6th, or 7th time, can you please provide any evidence for these claims from a source outside of Russian state controlled television?

57 posted on 05/02/2014 5:10:58 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Your strawmen are tiring. You just look like a stupid fool, again.

You are SO blinded by raw, bitter hate, that you refuse to see the facts in front of you. Or do you just enjoy trolling?


58 posted on 05/02/2014 5:11:37 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Rashputin

.....”it looks like the “peaceful non-coup non-mob” installed crowd in Kiev is the one murdering protesters in the streets”....

The tactics and behavior in Odessa and other areas strongly resembles when the right sector thugs hijacked the Maidan in the beginning...that’s when the violence began in full.

This also follows similar to the Muslim Brotherhoods antics in Egypt when they hijacked the protests and began killing. Always hiding behind a smokescreen of one form or another...ended up we all now know they were killing even fellow Muslim Brotherhood people so they could blame the protesters who BTW had the military with them.

There’s been enough of the military and police who have left or refused to fight...I wonder if the General would unite them all and simply remove the Kiev Gov. and take military control temporarily?

Course I doubt the US would agree to this....and the Eu has become strangely silent.


59 posted on 05/02/2014 5:13:12 PM PDT by caww
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To: Mariner
And what would you call somebody who shells a city with artillery?

It's RT.

60 posted on 05/02/2014 5:14:16 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: tcrlaf
Your strawmen are tiring. You just look like a stupid fool, again.

But I'm not sure you are capable of actually giving any kind of a specific about any thing you say without looking like a fool. For example, can you please point out what my "strawman" is and explain in a logical way how it is a strawman? Your method here is so blatant that I know perfectly well you are trying to deceive people into thinking you know what you're doing.

61 posted on 05/02/2014 5:14:53 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: tcrlaf

There are seven or more of these trolls on here....doing nothing to offer facts or anything to confirm their stance. Simply quoting the Maidan jargon and agin without proof or anything to back their remarks up.

So you see they aren’t interested in more than slamming people....wonder of they’re closet Nazi’s?????


62 posted on 05/02/2014 5:16:30 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww
This also follows similar to the Muslim Brotherhoods antics in Egypt when they hijacked the protests and began killing.

So, the Muslim Brotherhood was responding to armed thugs sent by a foreign enemy trying to take over with violence? Got a link for that?

The tactics and behavior in Odessa and other areas strongly resembles when the right sector thugs hijacked the Maidan in the beginning...that’s when the violence began in full.

I'm pretty sure the violence began with Berkut and the murders, but, I wouldn't want to stop you on a roll.

63 posted on 05/02/2014 5:16:57 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: tcrlaf

64 posted on 05/02/2014 5:17:40 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: caww
There are seven or more of these trolls on here....doing nothing to offer facts or anything to confirm their stance.

The Putinists have been saying this more and more lately in threads, but they don't actually respond to these "trolls" they mention or dispute any specific facts. So, what facts are you disputing? Can you point to something in the thread specifically? Don't just say something random. Quote someone.

65 posted on 05/02/2014 5:19:42 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Longbow1969

Great post. Thanks for taking the time.


66 posted on 05/02/2014 5:21:19 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: ScaniaBoy
but unfortunately most likely wrong on one important point

Which side do you think wants these elections to go forward most? I think it is safe to say the ethnic Ukranian side. A quick look at Wikipedia shows that over 75% of Ukrainians are of ethnic Ukrainian decent. Only 17.3% are of Russian ethnicity. And the Russian's actions of late have almost certainly hardened the opinion of ethnic Ukranians to look to the West. Putin may have grabbed the Crimea, but my guess is he's lost ethnic Ukranians for perhaps generations.

As to your other points, I really wouldn't mind too terribly if the solidly ethnic Russian areas were allowed to vote to secede and join Russia. Maybe that is what it would take to resolve this, but make no mistake the result would be the permanent loss to Russia of most of it's "Ukranian buffer zone" - at least until they invade it again (which is precisely why the remainder of Ukraine would immediately try to join NATO and the EU with renewed vigor). Perhaps a few areas would even go with the Russians, but my feeling is that support for joining Russia is vastly overstated even in the most Eastern regions. Don't think a lot of this separatist activity isn't being engineered by Russian operatives, special forces, coordination, etc.

Look, the Russians have their own interests. I don't blame them for that. China has its own interests too, as do all nations. My biggest gripe is with this naive idiot we have in the White House who thought he was the golden (err, half black) boy who could just talk his way into everyone loving us. This kumbaya garbage just doesn't work.

Putin, in my view, has played a masterful hand so far with poor cards. Russia isn't that strong, and most of its army is 3rd world rabble (albeit with some great equipment they can't afford to maintain properly or train enough with). He can't project power in any meaningful way and his economy isn't that strong. While it may not appear that way now, Putin has taken his country backward in the long run. Whatever "democracy" was taking root has been nearly wiped out, there is no longer any free press, dissent has been squashed almost entirely - none of this is good for the Russian people in the long term. Perhaps Putin knows this and believes the one thing he can do is seize territory and rebuild the old empire, then try to run with the China model of allowing free markets with no political freedom.

67 posted on 05/02/2014 5:23:18 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: jimbo123

.....”John Kerry attacks RT during Ukraine address”....

ROTFLOL...well then we should believe him....????? (Sarc)


68 posted on 05/02/2014 5:25:58 PM PDT by caww
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To: Longbow1969; ScaniaBoy

I’d becareful speaking in terms of “ethnicities.” As a matter of fact, there were ethnic Russians, Ukrainians, even ethnic arabs and Jews who took part in the Maidan. Ukraine is a far more diverse country than the media lets on. It is more accurate to say that most Ukrainians, of whatever ethnicity, support a united Ukraine, even in the East and South, as polls have shown. These people who don’t you will likely find either at the bottom of society, or are communists and other weirdos, who can be bought or persuaded to support the Kremlin by Russian GRU. The Kremlin has likely planned this operation for years, by the way, with lots of agents in place they planned to activate in the event that Ukraine shook off their hold and gravitated to the west.


69 posted on 05/02/2014 5:30:02 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: caww

“....wonder of they’re closet Nazi’s?????”

No, a couple sound like 12 year olds.
Most likely they are somehow connected to Right Sector/Svoboda. Not ONE of them is willing to tell us WHO MaidanPR really is.

We saw this exact same kind of spamming before Tunisia, before Libya, and before Egypt, if you will recall.


70 posted on 05/02/2014 5:33:45 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Points taken, and I think your broader comments are probably quite accurate.

It is my guess that Russia is going to have more trouble than people think at even keeping the Crimea quiet - at least without severe repression. Once things settle down and people have trouble converting currency, getting daily goods, acquiring supplies for their businesses, withdrawing money from the bank, etc, we may see a lot of anti Russian activity that will force Putin to devote resources just to keep that one area pacified.


71 posted on 05/02/2014 5:35:07 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

72 posted on 05/02/2014 5:38:26 PM PDT by caww
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To: MagUSNRET

too funny


73 posted on 05/02/2014 5:39:36 PM PDT by advertising guy ( <------------- lotta white in here ------------>)
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To: tcrlaf
Ok...got it...I will continue to graciously ignore their rants.
74 posted on 05/02/2014 5:40:18 PM PDT by caww
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

“The Kremlin has likely planned this operation for years, by the way, with lots of agents in place”

Being a former Soviet State, I have no doubt at all that Ukraine is riddled with people willing to give, or sell, info to the Russians. Especially the mafias.

That said, the US even has a “plan” for the invasion of Canada, should that ever become needed.

That Russia had a plan to move on Crimea should anything happen in Ukraine shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, given its strategic importance.

It wasn’t until the US gave Putin the OPPORTUNITY to move on Crimea, that he did. Russian intelligence isn’t stupid, they knew this was coming, and EXACTLY who was behind it.

That Putin is now using that to his advantage shouldn’t surprise anyone, either.


75 posted on 05/02/2014 5:40:37 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: dfwgator

lol...
Aren’t you supposed to punch Seinfeld, now?


76 posted on 05/02/2014 5:41:10 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
That said, the US even has a “plan” for the invasion of Canada, should that ever become needed.

You should check some of the work by KGB defectors, counter-spies and other Soviet analysis. When we speak of the Kremlin having "plans," we mean plans they are actually going to use and are working to bring about. To watchers of the Kremlin, none of the behavior by Russia is actually a surprise. Until the hidden soviet structures in Russia are dismantled, the special services of that country and its military will remain a mortal threat to the West.

That Russia had a plan to move on Crimea should anything happen in Ukraine shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, given its strategic importance.

You might as well say that a liberal, or a socialist leadership in Canada will trigger an American invasion and annexation using astro-turf separatists and U.S. special forces wearing ski-masks.

77 posted on 05/02/2014 5:46:50 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Longbow1969
It is my guess that Russia is going to have more trouble than people think at even keeping the Crimea quiet - at least without severe repression.

According to a representative of the Crimean Tatars, he was told that if the Tatars did not fall in line, that there would be repercussions and even "disappearances." I think repression is inevitable.

78 posted on 05/02/2014 5:48:44 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Last I checked, “losing” Canada wouldn’t cut us off from our only warm weather port, would it?


79 posted on 05/02/2014 5:52:52 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
Last I checked, “losing” Canada wouldn’t cut us off from our only warm weather port, would it?

So, if Canada cut us off from a port of some kind, or some other resource, it's okay to murder and pillage them to get that access? This is imperialism, and if Russia is really a peaceful country, it should operate under the rule of law and maintain its treaties and other agreements, rather than violating them through invasion and illegal seizure.

80 posted on 05/02/2014 5:57:38 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Longbow1969

The unit from Crimea was put together in Crimea.....It was formed by volunteers, half or two-thirds of them are citizens of Ukraine. The unit includes people from western and central Ukraine. It also includes local fighters from the region itself.....it was by Sloviansk s invitation the units went to Sloviansk.

Most of the men in the command possess war experience, including former service in the Russian or Ukrainian militaries and tours in Chechnya, Central Asia, the former Yugoslavia and Iraq......

Their unit’s weapons came partly from police facilities they took over in Slovyansk. .... also stripped arms and vehicles from Ukrainian forces they repelled when the Kiev militants tried to enter the area earlier this month.... military hardware his unit gained included about 150 automatic weapons, a few grenade launchers and six infantry combat vehicles.

Russia so far hasn’t supplied them with a single machine gun or bullet...everything was ‘gifted’ by the Ukrainian military and police.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304788404579526160643349256


81 posted on 05/02/2014 5:58:11 PM PDT by caww
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To: tcrlaf
They're using old trollies to block the streets..


82 posted on 05/02/2014 6:07:40 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Geeze man, Putin even admitted he had troops in Crimea. It’s not some secret anymore.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/putin-changes-course-admits-russian-troops-were-in-crimea-before-vote/2014/04/17/b3300a54-c617-11e3-bf7a-be01a9b69cf1_story.html

From the article: MOSCOW — A confident President Vladimir Putin on Thursday used his annual televised meeting with the nation to portray a powerful Russia — one that is dismissive of the West, had troops operating in Crimea even as it denied it and regards a large swath of southeastern Ukraine as historically part of its territory.....(more)

I agree that some of these separatists have arms they gained from former Ukrainian units that switched sides, dropped their gear and ran, etc, but to believe that Russian operatives and special ops aren’t heavily involved in stirring up and reinforcing “protests” is to be sticking your head in the sand. You can bet Russia had contingency plans for this very thing, just like most nations war game out and prepare for many scenarios.


83 posted on 05/02/2014 6:08:13 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: tcrlaf

Updated:

” Eyewitnesses report that tonight’s battle at Kramatorsk has stopped. ..Kiev Army did NOT succeed in entering city.”


84 posted on 05/02/2014 6:12:17 PM PDT by caww
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To: Longbow1969
EU/US/Nato expansion has marched right along , defying the agreements this would not occur. So of course Putin's been prepared for this. He knew once Ukraine, or for that matter as well Georgia, comes into play he'd have to do something to arrest it. He's been warning the EU/US ever since they went after the Baltics and now others in their pipeline....heck even before that. So what did they expect going after Ukraine??? A hand out?

However Nato wasn't prepared for Putin to act as he did.....nor took into account the Nato Member states were not enlarging their military camps to protect themselves as was required by Eu/Nato agreements. Now they're all scrambling to determine what to do, and of course relying on the US for their nations protection because they failed to do so themselves.

I recall at the Atlantic meetings the consistent voice that the US had to do more, and yet we already have been doing far more than our share of the heavy lifting. Nato is nothing but a propped up extension of our military.

So of course all these Nato members were bawling and screaming the US had to do something....

We are sooooo being used, and drained, by EU's quest for power as a Nation State of it's own because our government is in lockstep with the EU's agenda ....

85 posted on 05/02/2014 6:29:31 PM PDT by caww
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To: MeganC
"You mean like Russia did in Chechnya? "

Exactly like that.

That's my point.

The whole friggin' world is like that.

How much of it should we fix?

86 posted on 05/02/2014 6:31:44 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: caww

You know we probably agree on some things. I hate the EU, and I hate how the Europeans have used us - pressing America to pay for their defense while they built social welfare states that are crumbling (though they’ll continue kicking the can as long as they possible). To give you an idea of how much I hate the EU/Eurozone, if I were Greece I would have simply defaulted and quit it altogether, took the short term hit, went back to their old currency and I’m guessing we may both agree they’d be far better off today.

Still, look at the big picture. The Ukraine is roughly 75% ethnic Ukrainian and has been under the boot of it’s giant neighbor Russia for a very long time. However we may feel about it, the average Ukrainian (particularly ethnic Ukrainian) has had far more recent bad experiences with Russia than they have had with the EU/NATO. Ever wonder why so many of these old Russian satellites are desperate to join the EU even as it slowly collapses under it’s own weight? Because they fear Russia more. Many of these Eastern European/Baltic nations know EU policies suck, but would gladly join if it will keep the Russians at bay. That’s just how it is.


87 posted on 05/02/2014 6:40:14 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: caww; Longbow1969
EU/US/Nato expansion has marched right along , defying the agreements this would not occur.

There was no agreement between NATO and Russia wherein NATO would refuse to accept former Soviet-bloc states who wanted to join. And why shouldn't they be allowed to join? After all, Russia has a long history of invading its weaker, smaller neighbors. How do you think Russia got so big in the first place? An agreement with NATO would require all of NATO formerly recognizing it. There is no such thing as a secret agreement or an "understanding" that is in any way binding.

He's been warning the EU/US ever since they went after the Baltics and now others in their pipeline....heck even before that. So what did they expect going after Ukraine??? A hand out?

IOW, you are claiming that Russia has the right to bully, rape and murder countries that do not want to be forever trapped under the Comintern's control.

We are sooooo being used, and drained, by EU's quest for power as a Nation State of it's own because our government is in lockstep with the EU's agenda ....

Notice that in all of this rambling nonsense you never once actually consider the opinion of the Ukrainians themselves. To you, they are a non-entity, to be butchered by Russia if they hold to the wrong opinion.

88 posted on 05/02/2014 6:44:01 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
There was no agreement between NATO and Russia wherein NATO would refuse to accept former Soviet-bloc states who wanted to join. And why shouldn't they be allowed to join?

Agreed, though Russian paranoia is a fact of life and we do have to consider that when admitting new members. Right or wrong, Russia may feel NATO membership for Ukraine is just a bridge too far. Call it national pride, or considering Ukraine its national buffer, or whatever, any Russian government may recoil at this. Still, your point is spot on. A free Ukraine should be able to petition to join whatever organization it wants.

To me the lesson is this: Don't give up your nukes. Never, ever, give up your nukes. If Ukraine had them today, things would be a whole lot different. At minimum, the Ukraine could use them as leverage to get a lot more Western help just by hinting they might use them to defend their territory.

89 posted on 05/02/2014 6:54:14 PM PDT by Longbow1969
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Comment #90 Removed by Moderator

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

91 posted on 05/02/2014 7:15:10 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

when you are dealing with a bunch of Communists hell bent on dominating the Ukraine (and the world), yeah, I can justify that!

And you would too if Commies showed up in your town, took it over, and started trouble.


92 posted on 05/02/2014 7:20:31 PM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: caww
How many unarmed Maiden protestors were shot. Are yo going to justify that?
93 posted on 05/02/2014 7:25:48 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: caww

Posting that photo is revolting propaganda. Disgusting. Reported.


94 posted on 05/02/2014 7:30:24 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: caww

Am I supposed to weep for them more than for the Ukrainians and Tatars murdered by the Kremlin’s stooges? If the Putinistas want the Russians to fight a glorious war for the Motherland, they will need to get a stronger stomach. You will be seeing many more dead combatants and tools of the Kremlin ere long, God willing!


95 posted on 05/02/2014 7:31:56 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Longbow1969
(("If I were Greece I would have simply defaulted and quit it altogether, took the short term hit, went back to their old currency and I’m guessing we may both agree they’d be far better off today")) That's exactly what I believe Iceland did...and they are indeed better off for it. Now other Eu/NAto states are wanting to jump the ship. Remains to be seen how their elections support this. Afraid, as with the US, too many uniformed voters haven't a clue what's going on.

I do understand what you are saying about nations desiring to be "independant"..but they can't without a handout and most are unwilling to do the heavy lifting required, or sacrifice their comfort zone for that. Sink or swim they might do best by going it alone.

However, What is happening in Ukraine has nothing to do with what the Ukrainians want, thought they've been manipulated to believe so. It never was as soon as other nation states got involved.

They were months from the next election, and even early voting was agreed on...so the issue wasn't about what the people wanted at all. IMO...and still isn't...

Those now in office would love nothing better than to have the election ahead derailed, I said long ago it would come to delaying it "for violence", and low and behold Obama said to day the violence was likely going to prevent the election.

Handy for the Current Kiev Government to solidify and consolidate their members within,..which are fully under the US direction. So it's really delaying it so our Gov. can further their agenda for Ukraine. There will be no election until the US has everything they want in place for that to occur....I hate with a passion what our country's leadership has become.

But your post says exactly what I've pointed out...why are we involving our people and our monies on Ukraine....we stand to gain nothing..except of course putting missles on Putins doorstep. Which isn't necessary with the trajectory they do today.

96 posted on 05/02/2014 7:34:28 PM PDT by caww
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To: FreeReign

Reports from Odessa are 5-10 Ukrainians were shot to death and about 40 Pro-Russians burned. It’s all horrific and sad.


97 posted on 05/02/2014 7:35:39 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Notice that the Putin parrots didn’t say a word about the Pro-Ukraine marchers brutally beaten in Donetsk on tuesday. No photo galleries of the carnage. It’s all out there. None of them posted the pics.

Another beat down seems to have been the Team FSB plan today in Odessa. When the SHTF the Green Men started shooting. Putin saw in the streets of Odessa today there are indeed Ukrainian patriots willing to face down his murders unarmed.


98 posted on 05/02/2014 7:49:29 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: tcrlaf

They didn’t just disagree, they took over your state capital, ran the police out of town, and said you cannot conduct order here. Oh and by the way they did that all with military equipment from another country.


99 posted on 05/02/2014 8:43:19 PM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: Almondjoy

Actually, they did it with old Soviet military equipment buried in a salt mine under Slovyansk a quarter century ago.


100 posted on 05/02/2014 8:56:27 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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